I can’t go on like this

[allovernothingagain]

I can’t cope any more.

Two children, aged five and two.

I am right on the edge of my sanity. Five year old comes in from the garden with some old ball, nothing special. The two year old decides it’s the most special toy ever and follows the five year old around sobbing and crying ‘mine, my ball, myball.’ Two year old is nearly three and this has been going on for months, years even. Attempts to distract her, find a different ball, just don’t work. Only that one will do, so the five year old ends up giving her that ball just to shut her up.

This time I lost it but in such an awful, cold way. I said something like ‘happy now, spoilt, selfish little shit? Enjoying your ball? Get out of my sight.’ And they both did, looking subdued and scared.

I’m not surprised. But I can’t live like this any longer. Honestly I just desperately wish I hadn’t had one of them; life was manageable with one but two is impossible. Where one is easy the other is awful and vice versa. I love them but I do resent them as well.

I was hardcore, I just never gave in to them when they were being unreasonable. Because the minute you give in, they will try it on again, and again, and it will get worse each time till they know you'll give in and give them what they want.

One of mine was a whingy, grumpy moaner at that age. But the grabbing things off his more mild-mannered older brother, I just never tolerated - ever. It was a "No, DS1 is playing with that. You can have it in a minute/when timer goes off." I just ignored the whining and screaming. Because they wear themselves out eventually. Or get bored of it.

Literally just carry on having fun with DS and ignoring the noise. Be stubborn, don't give in. Or have a laugh about it with DS.

Then when she CAN have a turn, you say "Oh, have you finished playing with that now, DS? Do you think DD can have a turn? Here, DD, DS is being very kind and such a lovely big brother to you and letting you have a go of the ball. THANKYOU, DS, you're such a nice to share with your sister!" Give him a big hug and a kiss and a smile. "DD, would you like to give DS a hug to say thankyou as well?"

I mean, really go to town over the whole praising of the right behaviour - with both of them. And basically just completely ignore the screaming. If she snatches, you are the parent, you just calmly take it back and firmly say "No, we don't snatch." And keep repeating that DS is still playing with it.

And you can do the same with DD when she has finished playing with something. Even if DS doesn't want it, perhaps you can quietly tell him separately that you are both going to teach DD how to share, and that he can help by pretending that he wants a go of something she's finished with it, when you ask. Big praises for her when she hands it over.

Always, always praise the behaviour you want (in an OTT way) and ignore the behaviour you don't want. Shouting gets everyone upset including you. And always explain the reason that something has to be done a certain way. And acknowledge that 2 year olds won't always accept that reason because their brains aren't developed enough yet, and they don't know how to cope with their frustrated feelings.

It's ok to acknowledge that they are feeling frustrated. "Ah, DD, yes, I know it's upsetting to have to wait for your turn. But you will have a turn eventually so that's ok."

You can do it. You're expecting her to behave with a reasonable mind but she doesn't HAVE a reasonable mind yet, she just has impulses and urges.

Also, if you really feel like you're going to flip and say something horrible you need to just leave the room (make sure they're safe) and go and make a cup of tea and put some music on or something.

What’s happening right now?

can you go out for a walk on your own? Or just with 5yo to park?

then when they’re in bed tonight you need to show DH this thread and make a plan to access some support and GP tomorrow

Honestly, there is nothing that works with DD once she’s fixated on something she is on one and you cannot reason or explain or coax or cajole.

Anyway. Thanks.

Everyone is very fixated on DH. He’s been with them most of the day. It really isn’t him; it’s me.

Also, get some loop earplugs. Really helps turn the whining down in your head.

Hello OP, we are really sorry to hear you are feeling this way.
We hope you don't mind, but when these threads are flagged up to us we usually add a link to our Mental Health Resources. You can also go to the Samaritans website or email them on [email protected].
Support from other Mumsnetters is great and we really hope you will be able to take some comfort from your fellow posters, but as other MNers will tell you, it's really a good idea to seek RL help and support as well.
We also like to remind everyone that, although we're awed daily by the astonishing support our members give each other through life's trickier twists and turns, we'd always caution anyone never to give more of themselves to another poster, emotionally or financially, than they can afford to spare.

We are going to move this thread to the Mental Health section shortly.

I’m so sorry OP. Autotwats have come out on it. Real
people still here.

Hang on in there. Maybe kick something hard in the meantime.

Consider speaking to your GP or HV about your DD, what you describe could be linked to neurodiverse conditions such as ASD,ADHD, PDA, and from experience the earlier you look into these things the better. Please don’t roll your eyes at this reply, this is from somebody who’s been there.

Ok deep breath.

Toddlers aren't reasonable, rational beings.
But they are predictable. Even if you think they aren't.

They ultimately do what works for them to get the one things that keeps them alive....attention!

The probelm with 'trying everything' means that the boundaries have moved a lot in her 2 years of life.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what strategy you choose but stick to it. Be calm, consistent and in control. If you can't, walk away and tag team with DH.

With the ball I woukd have told DS he can play with it outside or we would put it safe in his room or up out the way. Praise and give the attention to him.

Start giving her the language to ask for what she wants and praise when it works. 'If you want to play you say "please can I have a turn?"' If she says it she gets a short turn then DS can sau it too and she gives it back. Ad infinitim!

Good luck!

Don’t you discipline the younger one? “ little shit if you don’t stop moaning this happens” ie she has to go to her room for ten mins or something?

It’s possible she has a development delay or other issue which means she is outside the bounds of “normal” toddler. In which case you’re all going to need specialist help.

OR it’s possible she’s a normal annoying toddler who will respond to the classic & consistent techniques. But you clearly aren’t in a place to test this right now. So you need some help from GP etc.

Both routes lead to accessing outside support, and talking properly with DH about how you are feeling. If he’s a good dad like you say he is, then he will want to help and make all your lives better. You both call in sick at work tomorrow: send the kids off to school / nursery and spend the day talking and making a plan

Thanks. I do appreciate it, it’s just help with a toddler whining after toys isn’t exactly what I’m about here, it isn’t the toys or whatever it’s everything, everything is a battle and I’m sick of it.

Maybe it’s easier to think of them as awful children than me an awful parent but I am so sick of them, I’m sick of the fact I can’t have anything for me. Had some new earrings the other day; I never wear earrings, the kids have already destroyed them by taking through the little box

whenever something is delivered to the house my ds won’t leave it alone until we’ve opened it and established what it is, a hello fucking fresh box, nothing to do with him at all

they are really inappropriate with one another which is very uncomfortable but ignore my attempts to out reasonable boundaries in place

the fact ds ignores what I’ve said the first ten times and then everyone gets upset / annoyed if I raise my voice

the trashing of the fucking house, I am sick to death of tidying. I threw some toys away today because I’m just sick of seeing the sight of them.

Like I say, should have stopped at one 😂

jo Frost recommends a minute for each year. So ten minutes would be overkill, but just resumes the behaviour when released anyway.

Take a break, leave the kids with DH and get out of the house for a walk for an hour or so. Give yourself some peace.

both of you need a game plan for this, I found talking to our health visitor very helpful. You both need to be on the same page but it will be a slog and hard work, most parents of 2 little ones hit a brick wall.

come on here to rant, ignore the pissy comments and take the advice which you feel is conducive to your situation x

Okay, let’s say for argument’s sake that it’s just your DD and not toddlers in general, that she is inherently unreasonable, difficult and a pain in the arse (who doesn’t sleep).

Assuming the above is true, then her life (and by extension yours) is going to be very tricky indeed, because she will always be kicking off about something or other. If this is true (assuming she won’t grow out of it), she will need help. So start getting her help. Take her to the GP and tell them what you’ve told us. Ask for help, ask for an investigation, ask for a solution.

The GP will probably signpost similarly to the posters on this thread. But they can also offer you help with your emotions/MH, if you’re open to it, and can start investigations into any additional needs, if they suspect this.

I know this post might sound a bit ‘out of nowhere’, but you sound like you need some radical solutions to your DD’s behaviour, and how it makes you feel.

(Sorry X-posted!! But, yeah, agree).

Op sorry you feel so rubbish.
obviously you’re at the end of your tether.

I wondered if the little one is in nursery? Or playgroups or anything with other dc. Does she share there? As in is it specifically her brother or all kids.
when ds gives her the item he had and picks something else is she happy or does she want the second thing? If she’s happy with the first thing could he pick up a ‘decoy’ first item sometimes? So she takes that then he picks up the toy he actually wanted to play with. I know that’s not ideal but might give you a breather for now.

as others have said loop ear plugs. The constant impatient screaming is so over stimulating, sometimes if it’s safe I say no, I think you can do it yourself. And that gives me a minute as well whilst they try to figure it out instead of screaming at me to do something.

these aren’t big fixes for the over all issue but maybe worth a try. I would consider a trip to the drs as well. And maybe check your local children’s centre for mums groups and places to get a bit of a support network.

I am not with the kids. I wish everyone would stop telling me to have a break when I’m having one!

DD is fine with other kids; sometimes might say ‘that’s mine!’ or something but certainly wouldn’t follow them round screaming. It’s just her brother. Which is why I wish wish wish I hadn’t had two kids.

@allovernothingagain my reply is for a post that may have been deleted since as I wasn’t able to post.

This is very worrying @allovernothingagain. I don’t think you should be understanding the reasons parents behave the way you mention. I don’t mean to be disrespectful but it’s probably time you went to your GP and told them you are not coping, at all, and you need anti-depressants. Hopefully, these will stop you feeling the way you do and ensure no harm comes to your DC or yourself.

The way you express your fed-up-ness is bringing up long buried memories OP! It’s just awful. Knowing that nothing gets done and nobody listens to you until you lose your shit, and even then it’s 50-50 whether losing your shit actually achieves anything.

I suspect (and you probably won’t want to hear this) you and your DH need to establish a new way of parenting these children because clearly whatever you’re doing now isn’t working for you - and if it’s not working for you it’s not working for them, and that’s a vicious cycle all of its own.

The good news is that you only have 5 and 2 years of this kind of parenting to undo. It won’t take long, but it will require relentless consistency with zero slip ups and no allowances. New rules, explained firmly and repeated ad nauseam, no budging, letting the consequences play out. It’ll be painful in the short term but worth it in the long run.

Which new rules? That’s up to you. If you whine, it’s going in the bin. If you nag, you won’t get it at all. If you don’t do it after two reminders, you’ll have TV time removed. Whatever works for you and your home life. All said kindly but firmly. Lots of cuddles during the day when they’re good, firm hand when they’re not. Basically, a re-set. It’ll be hard but worth it. I feel for you. Getting into this rut is soul destroying.

Oh, they wouldn’t give a shit and I don’t have the energy to even try.

Besides, they ignore the new rule and what do you do? Consequences? Well, if they don’t care about those either you’re a bit screwed, aren’t you? And we do see it in society: kids getting detention after detention in school or people repeatedly fined or sent to prison. Just don’t care. I’m not saying I think that’s what they are destined for, I guess I’m just saying there’s no real way to make people comply.

Toddler behaviour can sometimes be like dogs can't it? Resource guarding, attention seeking, separation anxiety. I don't know that much about dogs but ignoring unwanted behaviour and rewarding appropriate behaviour is the same principle with children.

Don't give her any attention, don't speak to her, don't look at her but the absolute second she stops screaming, give her loads of fuss and attention.

Something to try maybe?

Ok that’s good you’re away for a bit. We didn’t know that. People are just trying to help.

Sounds like there is some serious sibling rivalry issues. Which need big action. For now I think I’d go with separating them as much as possible for a few weeks. Alongside getting you GP support etc, that might be enough to calm the immediate crisis.

So have a think about what that would look like.
Can one go to grandparents next weekend? Either alone or with one of you or DH?
Easter hols are coming up. How much nursery time do you have secured already? Look at holiday clubs for the older one, arrange for him to spend time with friends etc.
Make sure you’re both using annual leave or parental leave so you are not stuck with both on your own.
This plan isn’t forever but it’s a crisis aversion strategy for the next month or so.

Think about what YOU need. What do you miss about your old life? Then make some space for that. Whether it’s a bike ride at the weekend or a solo cinema trip. If that’s in the diary it’s something to look forward to.

No, no grandparents. It isn’t so much rivalry as they bring out the most awful side to one another. I don’t like them together at all but we are stuck with it.

They would care. If they are NT average kids, there is a solution.

But you’re not in the head space to hear that right now. So focus on getting yourself some help as that will be the biggest help to them as well.