What is the point of carrying on with my life?

[HadEnoughOfThisLife]

I reckon if I dropped dead on a Wednesday night, it would be maybe 4 days before anyone noticed. Apart from the cat. And he’d only care because he wasn’t getting fed and is too fussy to eat my eyeballs and fingertips.
I live alone, no partner, no close friends, two grown up children; one I text a few times a week and speak to on the phone about once a week, the other….he’ll ignore my messages and get in touch when he wants something off me; no other relatives. I work 3 days a week, (Tues/ Weds in the office, Thurs wfh) go to the gym 3 or 4 times a week and go to a couple of other weekly activities. I’m perfectly friendly and chatty at work and these activities but don’t have any contact with those people other than when we are face to face. I meet up for a walk and a coffee with one friend once a week, and another friend once every few weeks, but we rarely engage other than to arrange meet ups. They have families, friends and busy lives. Other than that I have no day to day interactions with anyone except if I buy something in a shop. (“Would you like a bag/your receipt?’ etc) or the occasional “Hi how are you?’ chats with neighbours.

From a philosophical point of view, my life is meaningless. I am not content on my own but can’t seem to make meaningful friendships. I’ve been single for 15+ years, and know I am a bit odd and shy so please don’t say ‘all you need to do is join groups, friendships take time, put yourself out there, ask people for a coffee’ etc etc. I am just not that kind of person, so you could say it is all my own fault.

I feel like Woolworths or the local pub on the corner that closes down. Everyone is sad because it has always been there in the background, but nobody actually went and spent time or money there.

I’m not depressed in the clinical sense, but what is the point of carrying on with my life?

I’m sorry you’ve been through this.

I don’t think that anyone can really predict how they would feel or behave if they got a terminal diagnosis. My mum died from an aggressive cancer 6 months after diagnosis. She decided to not have further treatment after the initial lot and came to terms with her impending death. Yes, I was devastated at the time, but respected her choice and wouldn’t have wanted her to go through painful and debilitating treatment that would have prolonged things for a short while for my sake. I still miss her at times, but I don’t weep and wail at the injustice of it or anything.

Do you like reading, OP? I feel like I could find enjoyment in just reading all the good books that other humans have written. Readers live a thousand lives, as they say. And then there are films, documentaries.. there’s just so much to experience even if you’re sat on a sofa.

But this is a variation of ‘join a club’ with added ‘just change your whole personality’ on a base of ‘you are not allowed to entertain the idea that your life is pointless’

I don’t think that’s true. I think that medically assisted suicide is becoming increasingly acceptable. You’re not risking the lives of others by jumping in front of traffic, no one will have to find you.

I think there are regular stories about people who’ve taken themselves off to Switzerland. Whilst it’s sad that anyone finds their life unbearable it’s their life, they should get to choose.

Holocaust survivor Ruth Posner and husband die at Swiss clinic www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp8j256l79go

Taking a risk is not ‘changing your whole personality’. How you are living now is not working for you. It’s making you miserable and angry. Why wouldn’t consider making changes rather than arguing against all suggestions on this thread.

I get it. The meaning of life is a question I struggle with constantly, I'm not depressed though. I just can't see what the actual point is if the whole cycle of life and the point of us existing at all. I'm not in the same position as you in that I still have a dependent child and therefore my life has a point as such.

My belief is that no, we are not obliged to go on living so others aren't sad. Our lives are ours to do what we want with. However, I would never want to intentionally cause my children pain and just try and remind myself that maybe life doesn't need a point. I just try and appreciate the things that give me pleasure.

I also think to myself how I would feel if I was told I would only had a few months to live, and the fact is I'd be devastated, mostly about leaving my children but also about things I wouldn't get to experience.

It is a very interesting question OP. If you don’t have a religious faith, what is the point of it all? Well in that case obviously you can make up the point of existence for yourself. Some might find “‘meaning” in helping others or raising a family (which makes them feel benevolent and good) or getting rich (which makes them feel powerful and superior) or being famous or contributing something lasting eg an invention or arts/culture (which makes them feel their existence won’t be forgotten). Some find a purpose in surviving as long as possible (eg battling a disease) or overcoming huge challenges (climbing a mountain) or obtaining a doctoral degree).

Many people just live small, unremarkable existences and don’t really question it.

I had a good friend many years ago who was ND and we lost touch as she moved to a city several hours away and our lives went in different directions. She was witty, sarcastic, thoughtful and extremely bright. In fact you would have liked her a lot. I assumed she was getting on okay but then I was invited to her funeral - she had ended her own life. I found it deeply upsetting because she was definitely a person who I felt could have got more out of life: books to be read, films to be seen, ice-creams to be eaten. And friends to be spoken to. I wish, more than anything, she had let me know that she didn’t want to be alive any more. I would have liked to have some more chances to meet her for a Chinese meal and chat about old times. I guess she didn’t want to burden me with her decision; I guess she thought I was not really her friend any more. Because in truth I was a bad friend; in hindsight I regretted that. I’d have liked a chance to try again.

So maybe that’s your reason, maybe you should consider that someone would be very sad for the rest of their life if you took a decision to not live. And of course you don’t owe that person anything at all, but if there’s no “big reason” for our existence then perhaps the least we can do is create some happiness, touch the earth gently with our presence, and do no harm.

Thank you for your insights and a lot of things you have said resonate with me.

I don’t actually want to be No 1 in my children’s lives; it would be really odd if I was. I am proud that they are capable and independent young people who have good, stable personal relationships, despite the crappy example set by their mother! 🙄But yes, sometimes I feel that I am not even in the top 10. For example, I usually go and watch one play sport on a Saturday afternoon but yesterday I didn’t as I was feeling poorly with a cold. I messaged to say ‘sorry I didn’t come, I was poorly’ but could see the message wasn’t even read until lunchtime today. Even then, it wasn’t until I messaged again this afternoon to ask how the game had gone that I got a response. Hence the comment in my initial post about how long would it be before anyone realised I was dead.

Yes, i do find criticism difficult to take (you’d think with all the criticism I give myself I’d be better at dealing with it) but feel it is all entangled with a whole load of other things to do with confidence and self-worth.

I would like to pursue some kind of therapy and am actually waiting for a friend to get in touch about finding a therapist after having a bit of a breakdown a few weeks ago. (see, I can open up to friends)

If I am not naturally a risk taker, then being advised to give it all up and travel the world and not worry if it doesn’t work out is not a suggestion that is helpful.

And, as I have said before many times, I am not looking for practical suggestions to make my life better. I already know that people find meaning and enjoy in religion, or enjoy knitting or volunteering or travelling and having close friends and dogs and I am capable of seeking out those things myself.

My point is, why shouldn’t death be a valid response to a life not enjoyed? What if I don’t want to find meaning and momentary happiness in sunsets and the laughter of small children? It is making a lot of people quite angry that I am even floating the idea.

I was suggesting you travel the world. There are some good changes you could make without having to do that. Just saying ‘you aren’t a natural risk taker’ is an excuse - life is and should be full of risks - if you don’t you won’t know. Why not try.

Thank you for sharing this.

Your perspective is interesting and I hope you won’t be offended by what I say here.

As I see it, you feel bad that you weren’t a good friend, but you also feel it was up to her to make more of her life by reading books and eating ice creams. Maybe she did read all the books and eat the ice creams, but these things lose their appeal when you are doing them on your own all the time. I think it is human nature to want to share experiences, not necessarily always doing things with others but also sharing your thoughts and feelings about your experiences. To know that you matter enough to someone that they seek you out and are interested in what you are doing is a reason to carry on living.

You say ‘...maybe you should consider that someone would be very sad for the rest of their life if you took a decision to not live.’ but where is the balance of my sadness versus your sadness? Whose takes priority?

I think perhaps it makes people a bit sensitive because many of us know or know of individuals who have been dealt a crappy hand health wise who struggle through or try so hard to live that it seems difficult that others are perhaps not appreciative of what they have. I have a chronic condition that with medication doesn't really affect my life other than it might be a little bit shorter than other peoples or I might get cancer more easily or die of an infection that isn't caught quickly enough. I am not a risk taker and certainly don't live each day as if it were my last. I sometimes wonder if I ought to be doing more although I do go on holiday whenever I can! You are right it is your life to do as you wish but you are probably more loved than you think and I am quite sure your absence would be keenly felt. Sometimes I have found it is useful to have another living thing dependent on you and giving affection. Dogs are much too much hard work but a cat will pretty much do this with a lot less input.

Oh that's great about therapy, give your friend a kick up the arse. It might be worth having a look at my post to @Friendlygingercat about getting a psychotherapist not a counsellor, and the type of psychotherapy that's probably best placed to help.

It's just occurred to me though - there is such a thing as existential psychotherapy. I know very little about it clinically, but it starts from precisely the philosophical point you are at. I don't think there are many in the UK but there are definitely some.

I do hear, though, that although there is an existential element to your feelings, it's also very much about the relationships you have with others and with yourself, so this might actually be a bit of a red herring (as might be my philosophical suggestions from earlier). Perhaps really all that is needed is some good therapy and possibly a diagnosis?

On another note - my life improved immeasurably when I listened to what my husband had been saying all along, and which I had dismissed as lazy cliche - viz: Young people (even old young people) are inherently and deeply self-absorbed. The degree of their self-absorption is quite remarkable. It doesn't mean that they don't love you (I know you're not exactly complaining of that, but just as shorthand) or need you to a degree that is impossible to overstate.

To come back to my first post on the thread - to some extent, one's children need to be able to not see you as not fully human - just as a thing, 'there', a sort of material force, or some other aspect of the laws of physics - in order to become themselves.

I think this can be incredibly painful to discover - I'm not saying 'ah, it's the wonder of growing a new human' or anything like that, far from it. But it is true. And the alternative - forcing them to see you as fully human with needs and desires and pains and a past - does not end well. They just experience it as a destabilisation at best, and at worst narcissism. I thought that if I explained everything mine would find it easier to understand me - but actually, the truth is they don't want or need to understand me in any meaningful sense, and they are damaged by being asked to do so, and/or by the information that they need in order to try.

Looking all this in the eye - a kind of parental nihilism - I think can be, if not liberating, then definitely a path to peace.

I hope some of this makes sense - it may not at all, because it's not universal. Or at least, plenty of parents either catastrophically underthink or healthily don't overthink these things, depending on your position on (psycho) analysis.

And also lots of children, either instinctively or because they are taught by example or worse, smoothe the way by being lovely and easy, such that no-one ever actually has to look into the abyss at the heart of the parent-child relationship. Lucky parents - neither I, nor my children, are natural smoothers-over of the tissue of half-truths that cover the abyss 😬😂

I suggest OP you either start planning a fuck off amazing holiday abroad for some possible point in the future doing exactly as you please for a week or two or you throw yourself into nihilism.

This quote might appeal 'Nihilism asks us to toss out meaning and gaze into the void that's left in its place.' Basically, existence is senseless, meaningless and useless.

When you're feeling less dark you can consider moving into existentialism -Meaning is not found in an external source or universal truth but must be created by the individual. Or maybe that idea will just fuck you right off back to nihilism.

It sounds like what you are really missing or think would have changed things is a relationship. Having someone you live with and always around.
Which I fully understand. Especially if you have been single for a long time.
And given how much you have obviously achieved or done in your life so far then suggesting hobbies/travel and so on is not really what you feel you need.
Maybe the gp is not the path for you but maybe therapy would help. If nothing else its a great way to really talk about what you want to with someone who is impartial.

I'd also recommend that the OP looks into possible subsconscious causes of her issues. E.g. through a Jungian lens, perhaps. Or going deep into her childhood through therapy to identify possible causes / traumas. Something might have happened of which she is consciously unaware / can't remember or even something she can remember that was difficult from her past that she has repressed back into the back of her mind, un-dealt with, that is causing this crisis.

Haven't read the full thread but I'm reminded of the saying "Americans think life is serious but not hopeless, whereas the British know that like is hopeless but not serious".

OP, no one gets out alive but only can decide what to do with what's left of your life. You could become a hermit. You could become a child's entertainer (not a serious suggestion, just popped into my head). Seems a bit of a cop out to just check out without at least having a go at making this last part fun.

To add to this great post - looking into the abyss requires huge bravery. The consequent knowledge that you have even some of that capacity is what makes nihilism ‘work’ as an applied philosophy in my view. You fear nothing because you’ve not looked away. And you can trust yourself and the world, because you’ve refused to be soothed with lies or distractions.

My point is, why shouldn’t death be a valid response to a life not enjoyed? What if I don’t want to find meaning and momentary happiness in sunsets and the laughter of small children? It is making a lot of people quite angry that I am even floating the idea.

It is a valid response. It really is.

Just as calls for the death penalty often are.

The same basic arguments against apply to each, too. Irrevocable. Sometimes misinformed. Capacity to understand one’s actions can be affected by external forces or internal imbalances. Survivors damaged.

I think it all needs a huge amount of thought before you make a decision - years and years of thought and examination. But I think we are all allowed to do that thinking, and our conclusions should be respected.

the point is, if life feels meaningless to that degree no amount of club joining, volunteering, yoga, running clubs or religion will change that.

I felt what you are describing @HadEnoughOfThisLife and the enormity of that dull overwhelming void that swallows one up can not be broken by an ice cream or some volunteering. I do understand how people are trying to help with suggestions but they have no idea how patronising and laughably removed those solutions feel from breaking through that barrier.

Thing is, I have been stupidly happy for a long period of my life. And then things changed and I found myself in an emotional pit. the meaninglessness felt worse than any anger or rage could feel.
I think trauma has a lot to answer for in my case so exploring that helped. sadly it is a level of expertise no GP can deliver, and I had to wait for month for the right professional.

I don’t have a suggestion for you, I am just here to validate your position.

''@Whatachliche · Yesterday 23:19

the point is, if life feels meaningless to that degree no amount of club joining, volunteering, yoga, running clubs or religion will change that.
I felt what you are describing ^ and the enormity of that dull overwhelming void that swallows one up can not be broken by an ice cream or some volunteering. I do understand how people are trying to help with suggestions but they have no idea how patronising and laughably removed those solutions feel from breaking through that barrier.''^

I had a complete breakdown about three years ago and made plans to end my life.

Thankfully I reached out to my GP at the last minute and she prescribed anti depressants and referred me to the Crisis team and they helped me get better. I also got a series of counselling sessions through the NHS.

Once the meds were working and I started getting out of this black hole I also added simple things like going out for a walk, a weekly pilates class, meditation, gardening and running. This did help me continue to get better longer term so these type of suggestions should not be dismissed as ''patronising and laughable''...

Recovering from and living with mental health issues is not easy and it takes a combination of interventions to get better and find coping strategies.

I think the first step should always to see a GP and/or contact crisis services of course but the lifestyle changes suggested in the comments also have a part to play.

Some thought provoking responses here from posters who are so much better at putting into words the swirling mass of angst that is occupying my head.

@CandidOP I do already have a cat that I love dearly and he, along with my two children are the reasons for carrying on. I am not in such a bad place that I would put them through such trauma, but other people? Meh, they’d be a bit sad but their lives wouldn’t be affected in any fundamental way.

@thestudio I am seeing the friend next week so will follow up on the therapy route. I do find it a bit daunting as to how you find the one that will be best for you.

I agree with what you say about relationships with children. As I have said previously I do have the awareness that they have their own lives and I would not want to be the most important person in their lives, but there is always that problem of achieving the balance where everyone is happy with the levels of contact and consideration, when one side of the balance (me) finds it difficult to articulate feelings. It would be very easy to offload onto them, particularly my eldest, but I know that it would be totally inappropriate so I do hold back.

@Starlight7080 Yes, I would love to have a partner, but finding one is easier said than done. I have tried dating apps but got nowhere with them. I also got some introductions from friends but nothing worked out there. So I’m back to waiting for Chris Hemsworth to materialise in my sitting room, ready to take on the housework and cooking!

@Tess592 Nihilism sounds intriguing but hard work. Maybe that is what I need rather than taking up country dancing or bridge?

@Whatachliche thank you, another person who has understood where I am coming from. ‘The dull, overwhelming void’ is exactly it.
I haven’t experienced any major traumas but maybe it is the accumulation of lots of smaller upsets, coupled with my inward looking, sef-critical personality that has lead me here.

@Greenwitchart The thing is, I am not at the point of a complete breakdown so seeing a GP would be pointless. I already live a healthy, active lifestyle - I run 20+ miles a week, lift heavy weights at the gym, go to a couple of group activities, go for walks in the countryside, eat home cooked food and all that. What other changes should I make to my life? I am sorry for what you have been through and hope you find peace, but you have missed the point that for me, such suggestions are 'laughably removed from breaking through that barrier’ as Whatacliche put it.

One thing I don’t need is any kind of sprirtualism, meditation or mindfulness (urgh, just hearing the word ‘mindfulness' makes me want to scream) What I want is a fucking break from my own head.

You don't need to wait to reach breaking point to see your GP...

Anti depressants can avoid getting to that point (a complete breakdown) and help improve that feeling of hopelessness that comes with being depressed.

You can also ask your GP to refer you to counselling.

It might sound like a cliche but you need to accept you have an issue and take the first step to getting better by asking for help from health professionals.

Nothing is going to magically snap you out that doom loop unfortunately if you just stay as you are.

Maybe you need to do some mushrooms 🍄

What I want is a fucking break from my own head

You should have said. What do you want to change?