My therapist fired me

[RaineyMae]

We had an agreement that I was allowed to email (with paid for reading time).

The content of one batch of emails got emotive and she took it as criticism.

Fired me by email on the grounds that I am ‘overwhelming’.

Ghosted my apology for upsetting her and my request for a termination session.

AIBU to feel hard done by?

Yep I think OP gets that now, Talisker — she's had enough people on this thread tell her that the way she tried to interact with the therapist was all wrong.

What I'm trying to do is to let OP know that she's not the only person who thinks the way she does, and that her actions were, if counterproductive, at least understandable as the actions of someone who was trying to do the right thing. OP doesn't need more people telling how terrible she's been, she needs to be able to work out what she did that was counterproductive, and things she can do differently in future, but also that that doesn't mean she's a bad person or is incomprehensible to all other human beings. Other people (like me) have experienced similar difficulties, and found therapists who can work with people who think this way, be clear about the best ways to communicate, what the ground rules are, and so on. It just needs a therapist who's experienced with autistic people who have these kinds of communication difficulties, plus lots of clarity, up-front setting of expectations, and understanding of how to mediate between different types of brains.

I know that @Taliskerskye - why are you saying that as though you think something different?

But I presumed to try to make the therapy arrangement fit the way that my brain worked.

And trusted the person on the other side to use their words and tell me if it wasn’t comfortable for them - rather than trying to second guess them.

And yes - I’m confused and hurt by her behaviour as a professional. That’s why I started the thread.

I’m not sure that therapy unless it is very specialised, can deliver what you think you need in terms of support.

Really broad brushstrokes here, but:

Normies can say to themselves "if I was the other person in this situation, I would want x, so I'll provide x" and a lot of the time, what they provide will be what the other person wants, because the other person's brain works similarly to theirs.

When autistic people do that, though, what they provide is very often not what the other person wants, because our brains work differently to most people's.

So autistic people, who, remember, have a social/communication disability and find this stuff harder than the average person would, actually have a much more difficult task than the average normie does, because they can't assume that the other person probably thinks much like they do and wants the same sort of information.

I think OP was explaining the thought process she went through in deciding what info to send and how to send it, not saying that the therapist was wrong for wanting something different. If the average person went through the same thought process ("What kind of communication would I find useful if I were in the therapist's situation here? Okay, I'll do that") they would usually land on a course of action that would work well. Autistic people aren't so lucky as to be able to do that, because we're a small minority. (This theory is known as the double empathy problem and while it has its limits it rings true for a lot of lower-support-needs autistic people.)

A therapist who works with lots of people who think like OP should be able to help her work out how to do the therapy in a way that works for both the therapist and OP.

@FrankensteinIsTheMonster why do you persist in calling those who are neurotypical “normies”? I’m interested because I understand it’s pejorative to call people with autism “autistics” as it’s dehumanising and I just wondered why you do it.

Problem, normie? 😝

Yeah I just prefer it. Sorry. It's just a word. I don't really get het up about it too much whether people call me autistic or a "person with Asperger's" or whatever the fuck they like as long as it's not an actual insult and I know what they mean.

"Neurotypical" just sounds a bit over-clinical and attempting to be scientific, while being kind of ambiguous because some people use it to mean not-autistic/allistic while others use it to mean "not ASD or ADHD or dyslexia or dyspraxia or serious mental illness or any one of a load of other things". And "normal" doesn't have a fundamentally different meaning to "typical" anyway. Neurotypical people are the norm, autists/autistics/your preferred term/other neurodivergent types are not the norm. We are divergent, atypical, abnormal. Meh.

So autistic people, who, remember, have a social/communication disability and find this stuff harder than the average person would, actually have a much more difficult task than the average normie does, because they can't assume that the other person probably thinks much like they do and wants the same sort of information.

I know you're trying to help, but I find the term "normies" incredibly offensive - neurodivergent people aren't abnormal!

Also, I don't think it's fair to label all autistic people as having a disability and finding stuff harder than the average person - this implies that autistic people are by definition deficient or less competent, when it's actually the situation that is presenting the barriers and disabling the autistic person in that situation - OP's situation likely would have played out differently if being autistic was the norm and therapists were completely familiar with the behaviours and thinking associated with autistic traits.

IMO, these kinds of difficulties are caused by the challenges that neurodivergent people face in navigating a world designed largely by and for NT people and in which NT people often have little awareness of those challenges. This is often compounded by the fact that neurodivergent people have rarely grown up with adequate support to overcome those challenges.

I also hate the implication that autism is a disability...
It certainly isn’t for my son and my sister,
Who are both incredibly talented,
Intelligent and high achieving.... they’re also both sociable and gregarious in the right company. We regard them as gifted in disadvantaged!

And "normal" doesn't have a fundamentally different meaning to "typical" anyway

You're not comparing like for like though - if you're saying "neuronormal", then I agree.

But saying "normies" and not "neuronormies" implies you're referring to the person as being typical or atypical.

And while you might not care what people call you, I'm sure I'm not alone in believing that having autism doesn't define a person and that defining a person as abnormal because they have a neurodevelopmental condition is deeply offensive and disablist.

Sure whatever Longines. You use the language you like and are comfortable with, I'll use the language I like and am comfortable with. If I come across a compelling reason to change it, I will. Your offence isn't compelling enough :)

In order to qualify for a diagnosis of autism, it does actually have to affect your life in ways that would generally qualify as a disability, whether you're operating under the social model or the medical model. For example, to get a diagnosis under DSM 5 you need "clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning". ICD is similar. If you're just quirky you're not autistic.

Wait till you find out people in the mental health communities I've hung around in in the past call ourselves mentals 😂

Anyway. We digress. How spergy of us.

I hope OP is resting in preparation for tomorrow and has found the thread mostly helpful.

Wait till you find out people in the mental health communities I've hung around in in the past call ourselves mentals

Thanks, but I think I'll pass!

@MrsTerryPratchett

I may be biased, but I don't think they are as equipped to work with clients with complex presenting problems as psychotherapists. But I'm happy for someone to set me straight.

I think the exact opposite

Psychotherapy isn't any better than active listening for many people. There are studies showing it, in my phone so I can't find any!

Completely agree @MrsTerryPratchett

Psychotherapy ruined my life for years. I'm not even sure what a Psychologist is either.

The only way I ever made sense of my life, including the damage done by psychotherapy was to see a psychiatrist.

The other qualifications can be achieved with the shoddiest of courses.

Autistic people are abnormal, in relation to a non-autistic norm. So what? I'm also blonde. Blonde people are abnormal, in relation to a dark-haired norm. In a discussion about, I dunno, extreme ironing enthusiasts, I'd be the normie who like most of the rest of the world isn't an extreme ironer. It's context-dependent innit.

And "normal" doesn't have a fundamentally different meaning to "typical" anyway.

I disagree.

'Normal' has an opposite of 'abnormal'. This isn't a great word. Normal and abnormal are heavily weighted words.

Typical and atypical are more neutral. They are more scientific terms. There is no value judgement implied.

@LonginesPrime

And "normal" doesn't have a fundamentally different meaning to "typical" anyway

You're not comparing like for like though - if you're saying "neuronormal", then I agree.

But saying "normies" and not "neuronormies" implies you're referring to the person as being typical or atypical.

And while you might not care what people call you, I'm sure I'm not alone in believing that having autism doesn't define a person and that defining a person as abnormal because they have a neurodevelopmental condition is deeply offensive and disablist.

@LonginesPrime you said it so much better than I did. It was late and I articulated myself poorly.

I also have no said whether or not I’m a “normie”. Please don’t label me as such. Especially not in jest and when I’ve already said I find it an offensive term.

...defining a person as abnormal because they have a neurodevelopmental condition is deeply offensive and disablist.
YY to this @LonginesPrime

Sure whatever Longines. You use the language you like and are comfortable with, I'll use the language I like and am comfortable with. If I come across a compelling reason to change it, I will. Your offence isn't compelling enough

You live in this world among people who speak English, @FrankensteinIsTheMonster.

The meaning and the weight of the words you use isn't something you can randomly assign according to your own convenience and taste and then shrug when someone points out to you that the words you use are offensive.

Some words are objectively objectionable. I can think of many examples. Some are racist. Some are sexist. Some are ageist. Some are ableist. You can't use them.

You especially can't use them and tell people who are offended that you intend to keep on using them because you have your own private language, that your comfort with your own private language trumps their right not to be injured by the ideas expressed in the language you choose to use, ideas which have historically been the basis of discrimination against many groups of people, and that you feel no obligation to consider the fact that you are addressing real, live, sentient other people.

Sorry to hear that @eekbumbler but I'm glad you found someone in the end to help.

I had really intense cbt a few years back for post natal depression, while I was actively going through it. In between sessions I would often have crisis points and i would have given anything in the world to have just picked up the phone and have my therapist talk me down. You just can't do it though, that is not how it works. You have to employ the strategies they've given you, then go back into the next session and tell them about what happened, discuss how successful it was for you etc.

Op good luck in surgery today.

Will be thinking of you

I am not a therapist but been in therapy for a while. I don't expect my therapist to do "you go girl!" Pep talks; this is not her job. Her job is to equip me with the tools to be able to calm myself down and be able to deal with stuff as it comes

I also believe therapy can't be done in a "sort my whole life out" way, but rather choose 1-3 issues and deal with them one at a time.

Not sure why she agreed to the e-mail setup, it seems unhealthy to me and feels like it creates a weird co dependency with your therapist.

So to me there are a few things that both you and her could've done differently 1. Her telling you the amount of emails was overwhelming for her and wasn't working and to steer you as to what was an appropriate amount (how else are you to know?), 2. You asking for a quick pep talk in the middle of a canceled slot isn't really appropriate although I can understand why you thought it may have been, 3. The way she cut you off is incredibly unprofessional and at the very least she should've recommended another therapist based on her experience with you. To be honest, dwelling on this experience is not going to do you any good and you're best off looking for another therapist to suit your personal style and from the off set explaining what happened with this therapist and that you need some guidance into what he/she is happy to accept from you, or not. You then need to work within those guidelines once agreed. It's a learning curve and to be honest, rare that people find their perfect therapist from the get go. In your shoes, I would try to leave a message with the receptionist (if she has one) and say if she's not willing to communicate with you any further, can she at least ask the receptionist to forward you details of another therapist - that really is the least she could do. I think you're getting a hard time on here unnecessarily to be honest, especially around the chocolates - I can see why you sent then and it sounded like you did a nice thing because you worried you'd upset her.

@mathanxiety

...defining a person as abnormal because they have a neurodevelopmental condition is deeply offensive and disablist. YY to this *@LonginesPrime*

Sure whatever Longines. You use the language you like and are comfortable with, I'll use the language I like and am comfortable with. If I come across a compelling reason to change it, I will. Your offence isn't compelling enough

You live in this world among people who speak English, @FrankensteinIsTheMonster.

The meaning and the weight of the words you use isn't something you can randomly assign according to your own convenience and taste and then shrug when someone points out to you that the words you use are offensive.

Some words are objectively objectionable. I can think of many examples. Some are racist. Some are sexist. Some are ageist. Some are ableist. You can't use them.

You especially can't use them and tell people who are offended that you intend to keep on using them because you have your own private language, that your comfort with your own private language trumps their right not to be injured by the ideas expressed in the language you choose to use, ideas which have historically been the basis of discrimination against many groups of people, and that you feel no obligation to consider the fact that you are addressing real, live, sentient other people.

@mathanxiety your eloquence here as is @LonginesPrime's post are fantastic thank you, said exactly what l wanted to say but was so annoyed my words weren't making sense. having autism doesn't define a person and that defining apersonas abnormal because they have a neurodevelopmentalconditionis deeply offensive and disablist. and for frankenstein to say 'your offense isn't compelling enough to change what I say' I'm astounded.