Everyone thinks I have PND, I think I just hate being a Mum

[someonecallthethoughtpolice]

Have name changed for obvious reasons. This will be long, sorry. But I think I need to get it out.

I have 2 DC, a 5 year old and a 7 month old baby. I was diagnosed with PND when baby was a couple of weeks old and have recently started seeing a Psychologist having been on a waiting list for a few months.

I love my children and there is nothing I wouldn't do for them. Everything I do is for them. I am entirely motivated to make sure they are happy and very well cared for. But I shouldn't have had them.

If I could go back in time and warn my pre-child self I would. I would tell her that if she has a baby it will be a relentless, thankless slog. Then just as it starts to get easier and she starts to get some semblance of a life back she will end up giving into societal pressure and her DC's constant begging for a sibling and start the whole nightmare all over again, later kicking herself for adding years onto what feels like a self-imposed prison sentence.

I really do love my children. But I don't enjoy parenting them. I find it stressful and boring in equal measure. The relentlessness. The repetition. The lack of freedom and spontaneity. The sleepless nights. The awkwardness of trying to force friendships with women I have nothing in common with because our DC's happen to play together at breaktime. Weekends lost to homework projects, swimming lessons and children's birthday parties. Sitting in a circle with a group of strangers singing "Wind the Bobbin Up" to largely oblivious babies and pretending we don't all feel completely fucking ridiculous. The illness, the mess, the tears and tantrums, the guilt and the worry that however much you do with them and for them it's never quite enough. I hate it all.

I want to be able to eat, shower and shit when I want without interruptions. To leave the house when I want. To sleep all night. To have the time to pursue interests and hobbies. To have the energy to have sex with my DH. To be able to consider career options based on what I actually want, not what will "work around the kids".
I want to be free. I often fantasise about running away and starting a new life in a place where no one knows me. Of course I knew it would be hard, I knew there would be sacrifice. But everyone always tells you "it's worth it". And I believed them.

Of course there are things, moments really, that I like about being a Mum. DD is so clever, she makes me laugh and I love how kind she is to her baby brother and her inquisitive mind. I love the smell of my baby's head, I enjoy making him chuckle and reading him stories. But it's not enough to balance out all the drudgery, sacrifice and above all, the loss of freedom. It doesn't feel worth it. I know it should, but it doesn't.

I feel like I've lost myself completely. I feel like I've taken a wrong turn somewhere and wandered into the 'wrong' life. But I have no right to feel that way because apparently it's the life I chose. So now I'm exhausted, not just from having a baby who won't sleep, but from having to enthusiastically play a character 24/7.

Before everyone piles in to tell me what a terrible person I am and that my DC deserve better, I know. I know I'm lucky and I should just be grateful to have two beautiful, healthy DC. I have a loving, supportive DH. I like my job. I have family close by. I know I have it easier than lots of Mums do. I know that it's not natural or acceptable to feel the way that I do.

I'm deeply ashamed of these thoughts and will spend my life doing everything in my power to make sure that my DC's don't suspect I have them. That's why I've never voiced any of this to anyone IRL, until today when I finally cracked and confessed all to my Psychologist. I told her that I feel guilty taking up her time, taking away a space from someone who is genuinely ill. Because I disagree with my GP, my Health Visitor who referred me to her, and those questionaires they make you do. I'm not depressed. I feel depressed but that's because I don't like my life.

Her response was "I think we should consider antidepressants". I felt like she wasn't hearing me. Or she didn't want to.

I desperately wanted to be a Mum but now that I am, it turns out I don't like it. How is that a mental illness? It's regret, not depression, surely? Yes, I do feel distressed, but so much of that is guilt because I know I'm not supposed to feel this way. And yes, I feel hopeless but that's because I have to live everyday in the knowledge that I've gotten myself into a mess that there is literally no getting out of. But apparently it's not possible to think that, on balance, having your children was probably a mistake unless you're suffering from a mental illness that requires medication.

So am I right in thinking there's no point in carrying on with these therapy sessions when my therapist and I disagree about the situation and from my point of view, there is nothing that can actually be done to change it?

If you actually managed to get through all that, thank you.

I suspect a lot of men (most men?) feel like you do. Do what they do - go to work and let someone else do the drudge work, either a nanny or your DH. The kids will be easier and more fun when they are older, and you will probably enjoy them then. Stop trying to do it all because you are the woman, it doesn't suit you. And quit the baby groups!

Cross posted. I thought you were a SAHM!

After your update I’m sure this is all totally normal going from 1 to 2 with a bad sleeping baby. Mine are similar ages to yours and lots of what you describe here I recognise. I think you need to stop being hard on yourself. It’s impossible to be perfectionist with babies/toddlers.

I know this is wanky London me speaking but fgs investigate sleep trainers. He may be a touch too young at 7mo but investigate.

My sympathies are with you OP; I hit the realisation today that I think I’m just a bit shite at the baby stage (well, the 0-40 month stage) as DD1 is three and a bit and I’m starting to really enjoy her company.

I also have a three week old; I love babies but for me the first 12 weeks is terror (that they get ill, die, hurt) then the next 12 weeks is less terror and then at month 7 I’m ready to put them in nursery and trot back to work like a spring lamb.

Some folk are just better at certain stages I think. Some folk also LOOOOOOVE certain stages too - I for one hate the weaning stage yet my friends loved it with their babies - you’d think it was the universal way to be.

Don’t fret too hard; I think returning to work will be the game changer.

I like my job and have some good friends at work. Is it awful to say I'm looking forward to going back?

No! It isn’t bad at all.

Lack of sleep is sooo tough. Is your partner helpful at night?

Try the ADs and keep seeing the therapist, your feelings are understandable and far from unique but I think the support will get you through this really difficult time until you find yourself again (probably when the baby sleeps through AND you're back at work).

Some people have written they think your experience is unusual. I don't think it is. I'm genuinely not minimising the way you feel but having 2 young children is oh so tough! You are justified in feeling this way. My ex SIL hated maternity leave and went back to work early she felt so strongly. I also don't think your career necessarily needs to work around the children -your children have 2 parents. I'm guessing going back to work will help

I see how you feel about antidepressants. People keep on telling me to take them but l don't need them. It's my current situation making me unhappy.

DD was up every 2 hours till 11 months and now she’s sleeping 7pm- 5.30am which I never thought would happen. Hopefully it won’t be long for your DS. I guarantee you will so much better once you get a proper rest.

I know it’s silly of me to say ‘sort out the sleep’ because I’m sure you’ve tried everything (I know I did!). Sometimes it’s just a development thing. We have found a bath every night helps, and I managed to introduce a comforter. I breastfeed less now and have started putting her in her cot with a teddy and a bottle of formula so she settles herself. Teething is horrendous so it could be that. DD basically screamed all day and night for 10 months. It was hell but she’s so much happier now she can walk and her teeth are through.

Also nothing wrong with being excited about returning to work! Mum guilt is so shit isn’t it? You end up feeling guilty either way!

I don't have a huge amount to add, but had one point - just because depression is due to circumstances doesn't mean it's not depression (if that makes sense). Illness, bereavement, job loss etc etc all cause depression. Therapy (with someone you get on with) or ADs might still help.

I SKIPPED back to work. I RAN. I knew I was getting over the bad times when I left a bit early one day because I actually wanted to put my son to bed. Before I'd never rush...meant my husband would have done it by the time I got home!

Looking back I think 7 months was the low time for me too. I really don't like that age. They can't crawl, can't amuse themselves, don't just sleep all day, start to fight naps, you need to wean them, and the acculumated sleep debt plunges you into true despair.

I second sleep training. Did it at 8 months and he slept through within 3 nights. Paid for a wanky sleep consultant too...

I am just realising that it's really, truly ok to hate bits of it. Doesn't mean you're not cut out for it, or that you're doing it wrong. Oh the relief when I just decided to stop going to soft play.

I'm rambling.

Keep us updated on how you get on.

I don't have anything useful to add OP other than to say that you are definitely not the only mother who feels this way.

My DS is nearly 3. I find parenting much less awful than the first 9 months but I still can't say I enjoy it. I'm very grateful that my DH put me off from having a second DC when I was guilting myself into it as I think it would've split up our marriage and I can't imagine I would have coped.

I'm hopeful it will get better with my DS as he gets older. But it's still really socially unacceptable to say these things - proven by the fact I have felt in need to NC to comment.

OP
Thank you for writing that first post. I could have written that post word for word; I have a 20 month old and a 3.5 yo.

The part where you talk about a self imposed prison sentence; yes: i am literally counting down the months till the younger one is 3 (when I think it gets easier). I want to go back to work full time; I want to do my job without having to consider how to fit it around the kids and their preschool runs, and half term and holidays. I want my life back. I want to be able to leave the house. I want to have a lie in on weekends...I want someone else to take on the ceaseless responsibility and oh my god the guilt!!!

I am where you are. I love them dearly but... I'm so tired (and no I'm not depressed!!)

I want to have the life I had before kids...

My DDs are 13 and 14 now but I remember all too well how hard it was and how relentless it felt when they were babies. I agree with a pp that perhaps what you are feeling is not so unusual. It is tough and sleep deprivation makes everything else seem worse.

I don't know if I felt like this with my first. It seems so long ago and itsy all a bit of a blur really

That sentence recognises that you got through the your DD's exhausting baby stage and things improved. The same will happen with your DS and before you know it, they'll both be older and life will have moved on.

It's honestly just a phase, OP, and it's probably the lack of sleep that's making it feel endless. Going back to work sounds like the right move for you, the adult company will definitely help.

Your feelings are not unusual at all. And yes you do need to go back to work!
Different people take to different stages of parenting. I loathed loathed loathed the small baby stage with passion ( stopped at two because I just couldn’t face it again). For all the reasons you describe. If you’re a bad person than so am I, but it doesn’t seem to have stopped me having a great relationship with my kids, now 12 and 11.

I also think people jump to PND as an explanation for these feelings now where in olden days they would have jumped to condemnation. Both responses are aimed at concealing the truth - looking after Tony children is boring, women are not any more adept at coping with it than men are, and some of us get fed up of it.

you've written exactly how i feel with two kids 5 and 1.... i would go back and tell myslef not to do it but then i'd probably regret that too. i'm hoping it will get easier when the younger one is 2.5 i felt that age was a big gam changer last time and i've just started anti depressants as i know my mood is low from constant wake ups, working full time and many illnesses.

Honestly op this is the exact reason why I'm sticking at just the one. He's 18 months now and although he's the best thing that's ever happened to me, I spend a lot of days just counting down the hours till bedtime! It's such a strange feeling, it's amazing and also dreadful being a parent all at the same time.

I'm knackered all the time, have to plan everything around naps and meal times or else deal with an extremely grumpy ds, can't have a shower in peace, can't go shopping without him screaming all the way round as he doesn't want to be in the trolley, can't go out to eat as he won't sit still, etc etc. The days are long (and some nights!!) and I can't wait till he's a bit older and I get some freedom back.

Don't really have much advice, but there must be a reason why you decided to have another baby. So I'm guessing once you're over the baby/toddler stage you will start to enjoy being a parent again. Nothing you can do but hang on in there

If you can afford to, download the app Huckleberry, track your baby's sleep for a week (don't track feeds or nappies) and then pay for their subscription model that gives you advice. Cheaper than a sleep consultant but quicker and less effort/brainpower required than reading a book or making a plan yourself.

Yes, don't go to the groups. They aren't of any benefit to the baby so if they aren't of benefit to you, don't worry! Baby will have plenty of stimulation with two older siblings to look up to.

Do not waste another second feeling guilty about looking forward to going back to work. It's a perfectly legitimate feeling. It's only nursery, you're not abandoning your baby to a den of wolves while you work, he will have a lovely time.

How much responsibility do you share with DH? Apart from saying he's "supportive" you haven't mentioned any ways he actually supports you? He needs to be giving you MUCH more time off. Time off thinking and being responsible - when you're at home, just to relax, sleep in, whatever it is. Time to yourself where he takes the DC (all of them) out or you go out and he stays in with them. Time to develop your career, yes, even at the expense of his own. You should share that, not have it all directed on one person all the time.

Maybe sit down and discuss the mental workload of responsibility for children and talk about which tasks he could take on. Just little things - who organises and takes them for their dental check ups? Who deals with school friends and play dates and birthday party invites and so on? Who cuts their nails, notices when they need a hair cut? Who notices when their clothing is outgrown and buys more? Who speaks to their teachers? Who takes the day off if they are ill?

You mentioned about choosing a career you want rather than what will fit around DC. What career would you want? What would you need (in terms of childcare) for that to work? Why is it YOUR job which needs to "fit around DC"? Could DH take a turn of that? Does he want to see you fly, to see you achieve as well?

I feel like you're seeing this as black or white - you either stay in the exact role you are now, feeling all the drudge but doing what you feel is the best you can for your DC so that "at least" they will be happy. Or running away and leaving all of it behind, (which you wouldn't do because you know it would hurt them too much,) but the reality is there is another way! You can change things about your situation to alleviate the parts you find so difficult and stressful. You can make big changes over the course of several years (having a long term plan is so important for mental health, I feel), especially if you have the support of a partner.

Don't worry about what other, random people think about it. Your children will be absolutely fine with a nanny, childminder, nursery, if that's what you need to do. It is not as though you would be moving to the moon - they will still see you every day, you will still have a relationship with them. Some people find that they are just not really baby/toddler people, and I think that's absolutely fine. It sounds like you find them more interesting when they are a little bit older which is also fine. You don't have to be supermum - it's perfectly fine to be Good Enough mum.

Such a well written, honest post OP. In many, many ways that could have been me writing it 10 years ago.
I had ds in my mid 20’s, before all my friends did and with no family local to me. It really did seem like a self- imposed prison sentence.
The absolute best thing I did was go back to work as it gave me a focus and I knew ds at the time, then dd four years later, were being looked after in a wonderful nursery.
As the time went by, things did get better- sleep improved, the crying lessened and it got easier again once they started school.
I looked after my baby nephew today but some of my negative feelings came flooding back sadly.
Getting out for walks in the fresh air, meeting friends in coffee shops and the odd baby class (music ones mainly) kept me vaguely sane.
Honestly, it will get better. I am a SAHM for the time being, my children are 10 and 6 now and they are a complete joy to be with (most of the time!)

I felt just like this. When DC2 was born I was looking forward to ending an awful pregnancy and I'd actually enjoyed the first few months with DC1 but having 2 is so much harder than 1, the first few months/couple of years were grim and I really did regret becoming a parent. I was often thinking back to my life before children fondly and how much more comfortable and easy that was. I loved being back at work (but even that is harder isn't it - no more staying late to finish the thing, going out for drinks, so much to do at home).

My children are now 8 and 11 and I honestly love being their mum, I no longer wonder about the parallel life where I stayed childless, it feels like they are meant to be there with me, I would never now go back and not have them if I had the choice. I might even miss them when they leave home! I stopped regret a long time ago, not sure when, but it definitely got better when they started sleeping through, feeding themselves, using the toilet independently etc.

Please try to stop beating yourself up. Try to calve in some time just for you and don't feel guilty. You love your kids and you are doing everything to keep them safe and well. In a few short years it will be easier to have 2 than 1 and they will appreciate having each other. I think being a perfectionist must be incredibly difficult to combine with motherhood, try to give yourself a break, good enough is good enough. xx

You are pity’s my too much pressure on yourself to be “perfect”. So you look forward to returning to work? Good for you. I enjoy working too. You find not sleeping hard? That’s cause it’s fucking torture.
You even had your second child in order to make the “perfect” family - give yourself a break! Seriously.

I had one child and I work. I’m neither a bad person nor a bad mother. Please stop judging yourself so harshly and just get on with the good bits and ditch the bad bits where you can and you’ll get through the bad bits that you can’t ditch.

OP! This thread became my bible after DC3! It was just my soul food for survival!
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/1960846-So-sick-of-being-so-angry-all-the-time-because-Im-so-fucking-tired

Also, no- you totally do not have PND. You're just TIRED and burnt out and fed up and it's totally, totally, totally normal.

I don't think your feelings are at all unusual.

Like others, I think you'll be better when you're back at work, also ditch 'baby groups'. Being with a lot of other mothers chatting about babies and domestic stuff is not for everyone, I'd have hated it.

Don't worry about this happening again, you have two children and don't have to have any more, make sure you don't.

With a bit of time, you'll be fine.

You do have a right to feel this way, do not feel ashamed.

I feel very similarly but am currently trying to suppress the social pressures to have another and the internal battle of guilt that my child will have a horrendously lonely childhood.

The truth is that I don't want another one - I probably shouldn't have had the one I have.