Everyone thinks I have PND, I think I just hate being a Mum

[someonecallthethoughtpolice]

Have name changed for obvious reasons. This will be long, sorry. But I think I need to get it out.

I have 2 DC, a 5 year old and a 7 month old baby. I was diagnosed with PND when baby was a couple of weeks old and have recently started seeing a Psychologist having been on a waiting list for a few months.

I love my children and there is nothing I wouldn't do for them. Everything I do is for them. I am entirely motivated to make sure they are happy and very well cared for. But I shouldn't have had them.

If I could go back in time and warn my pre-child self I would. I would tell her that if she has a baby it will be a relentless, thankless slog. Then just as it starts to get easier and she starts to get some semblance of a life back she will end up giving into societal pressure and her DC's constant begging for a sibling and start the whole nightmare all over again, later kicking herself for adding years onto what feels like a self-imposed prison sentence.

I really do love my children. But I don't enjoy parenting them. I find it stressful and boring in equal measure. The relentlessness. The repetition. The lack of freedom and spontaneity. The sleepless nights. The awkwardness of trying to force friendships with women I have nothing in common with because our DC's happen to play together at breaktime. Weekends lost to homework projects, swimming lessons and children's birthday parties. Sitting in a circle with a group of strangers singing "Wind the Bobbin Up" to largely oblivious babies and pretending we don't all feel completely fucking ridiculous. The illness, the mess, the tears and tantrums, the guilt and the worry that however much you do with them and for them it's never quite enough. I hate it all.

I want to be able to eat, shower and shit when I want without interruptions. To leave the house when I want. To sleep all night. To have the time to pursue interests and hobbies. To have the energy to have sex with my DH. To be able to consider career options based on what I actually want, not what will "work around the kids".
I want to be free. I often fantasise about running away and starting a new life in a place where no one knows me. Of course I knew it would be hard, I knew there would be sacrifice. But everyone always tells you "it's worth it". And I believed them.

Of course there are things, moments really, that I like about being a Mum. DD is so clever, she makes me laugh and I love how kind she is to her baby brother and her inquisitive mind. I love the smell of my baby's head, I enjoy making him chuckle and reading him stories. But it's not enough to balance out all the drudgery, sacrifice and above all, the loss of freedom. It doesn't feel worth it. I know it should, but it doesn't.

I feel like I've lost myself completely. I feel like I've taken a wrong turn somewhere and wandered into the 'wrong' life. But I have no right to feel that way because apparently it's the life I chose. So now I'm exhausted, not just from having a baby who won't sleep, but from having to enthusiastically play a character 24/7.

Before everyone piles in to tell me what a terrible person I am and that my DC deserve better, I know. I know I'm lucky and I should just be grateful to have two beautiful, healthy DC. I have a loving, supportive DH. I like my job. I have family close by. I know I have it easier than lots of Mums do. I know that it's not natural or acceptable to feel the way that I do.

I'm deeply ashamed of these thoughts and will spend my life doing everything in my power to make sure that my DC's don't suspect I have them. That's why I've never voiced any of this to anyone IRL, until today when I finally cracked and confessed all to my Psychologist. I told her that I feel guilty taking up her time, taking away a space from someone who is genuinely ill. Because I disagree with my GP, my Health Visitor who referred me to her, and those questionaires they make you do. I'm not depressed. I feel depressed but that's because I don't like my life.

Her response was "I think we should consider antidepressants". I felt like she wasn't hearing me. Or she didn't want to.

I desperately wanted to be a Mum but now that I am, it turns out I don't like it. How is that a mental illness? It's regret, not depression, surely? Yes, I do feel distressed, but so much of that is guilt because I know I'm not supposed to feel this way. And yes, I feel hopeless but that's because I have to live everyday in the knowledge that I've gotten myself into a mess that there is literally no getting out of. But apparently it's not possible to think that, on balance, having your children was probably a mistake unless you're suffering from a mental illness that requires medication.

So am I right in thinking there's no point in carrying on with these therapy sessions when my therapist and I disagree about the situation and from my point of view, there is nothing that can actually be done to change it?

If you actually managed to get through all that, thank you.

You're exhausted, OP. Take your DM up on the offer of having the baby overnight, and get some sleep. And stop feeling guilty! You have nothing to feel guilty about - quite the contrary. You sound like a perfectionist and a great mum, and you sound like someone who is pushing herself too hard. Give yourself a break! And yes, try to cut out as much of the boring stuff as you possibly can. Definitely don't go to the baby groups.

Are you in London OP?
I have a brilliant psychotherapist who has helped me through the first three years of motherhood, and would absolutely applaud your honesty- and not suggest ADs.

I have a theory that PND for lots of women is actually a sort of grief. An expression of bereavement. For the lives we had before- for the people we were before.

Contemporary motherhood is making mothering incredibly hard on women. The expectations are impossible to meet, the childcentricity of modern parenting makes it relentless (I say that as someone who was closely following an ‘attachment’ parenting ethos for the first year, and still cosleeps 3 years in) and society doesn’t really allow for mothers to continue their social participation or engagement as “full citizens” (see all the threads on mumsnet about kids in coffee shops, or anywhere, really, making noise or being visible), the generally poor corporate employment attitude to mothers and continuing attitudes to breastfeeding in public etc.

We ask mothers to put their children at the heart and centre of their worlds, but simultaneously tell them that THEY are no longer welcome in the world they knew and loved. Double whammy.

It’s hard. I can read in your post that you love your kids- i know I love my DS beyond measure and have felt some of what you’re feeling- but that doesn’t mean you have to love the way it’s changed your life. More of us should be honest about it, because the biggest disservice women do other women is not talking about this stuff. Just contributes to the isolation.

and solidarity.

Being a mother is exhausting, tedious, restrictive and boring.it's the most frustrating job in the world. And why would you enjoy sleep deprivation. It's used as a form of torture. But those little moments of enjoyment, do tend to make up for it, on the whole. Your feelings about parenting seem quite normal. What's not so normal is the extent to which the guilt that you are carrying about not enjoying it is getting you down. It seems to me that you are beating yourself up over thoughts such as 'this isn't enjoyable' 'I'm not cut out for this', I made a mistake, other mothers feel more for their babies. You feel ashamed and apologetic for the way you feel. All of that is an indication that you may have some pnd, or, put simply, you could be happier. You seem like you don't feel that you're even deserving of therapy as wasting their time. Ask yourself, would you like to be a bit happier right now. If the answer is yes, then why not give it a go! What have you got to lose??

P.s. of course your DH is great and enjoys spending time with them. You would too is you weren't stuck with them 24/7, had 12hrs off from them everyday and got better quality sleep. FFS stop being so hard on yourself!

7 month old and 2 year old here. It's fucking hard. We did sleep train recently (hasn't quite worked out tonight with OH being away) but for the first time in more than 7 months (insomnia during pregnancy) after getting some sleep I feel like a cloud has lifted. I didn't realise how much of me had got lost by being so tired and irritable all the time. I felt disconnected with my dc1 - well, with everyone really. The baby had been up every 1-2 hours, every night the whole 6.5 months. My oldest went to the grandparents for a few nights so as not to disturb her sleep too (although she has also been in my bed tonight fml) and when the baby woke DH went into him, gave him a cuddle, put him back down, left the room, let cry for 5 mins and repeated til the baby settled. I put earplugs in. Best thing we have done. Baby has woken once tonight but has been consistently sleeping 6-6:30/7 since.
I've also restarted an evening class one night a week and my oldest goes to nursery a day a week - the baby will go on the same day from January so I'll get a proper day off.
I've started doing things like booking regular hair cuts and making sure to go and get my eyebrows tinted - little things that make me feel a bit more me, that I can do alone, and I take my merry time about it.
I don't think what you feel is unusual - a lot of what you have written resonates massively. The key for me has been 'me time' but mostly sleep. Once DH is back from his business trip I'll be sticking the earplugs back in and getting up second!

I went back to work when 6 weeks ago, DD is 10 months old and it has done me the world of good. Staying at home just isn't for me. I do find things easier now that DD is walking and talking a little.

I should also mention as well I believe there are certain fibs new mums are sold namely:

1. Every moment with baby is a moment of wonder

1. You’ll make heaps of mummy friends via NCT/baby classes

1. You won’t want to think/go back to work

For me 2 and 3 were critically interlinked. I didn’t find it easy to make “mummy friends” and the adult to adult chats I had at work between 9 and 4 filled that gap to an extent.

Only when DD turned 3 did I feel I was starting to make connections that could last with a couple of nursery mums* so keep the faith as the friendship part (or lack of it) depressed the arse cheeks off me.

• and then we moved 500 miles away hahaha WHAT HAVE I DONE

I have a theory that PND for lots of women is actually a sort of grief. An expression of bereavement. For the lives we had before- for the people we were before

This really resonates with me actually. I feel like a part of me has died.

Don't have much time to post but just wanted to say I'm really hated the baby toddler years too. My biggest (stupid) shock was that there was no break at the weekends, it just went on and on and on. Now the youngest is nearly 5 and things are SO much better. I work ft and love being out of the house thinking and drinking coffee and adulting but also look forward to getting back and chatting to the DC about their days etc. Weekends are actually quite relaxing now and sometimes I even get to read the papers so hang in there it WILL get better and as pp have said drop the guilt and those tedious baby classes. I did them with the first about twice and thought wtf am I doing and never went back.

I could of wrote your post myself when I had my last daughter. I had completely lost all sight of my former life and I was just doing the motions. I often day dreamed about starting a new life, didn't dare say it out loud because I felt like I would be told I had pnd and I knew I didn't I was just sad and frustrated. Any way I decided to go back to work more hours and now 4 years later I'm so much happier I cant believe I forced myself to go to all those baby clubs and make friends with other women just because they had a baby the same time as me. I drop my kids off with out having to have a fake conversation with people I dont like at school and I love it! Do not feel guilty! This was the hardest thing for me as I'm a huge people pleaser and this resulted in me doing things to make other people happy and not myself. Also my kids love after school clubs and going to nanny for sleep overs and we are all happy. Its impossible to spend 24 /7 with any one and not get fed up of them. Any way what I'm trying to say is dont be afraid to do what you need to and dont give a monkey what other people think. X

Your op is actually one of the most honest, eloquent, things I've read for a long time and I've no doubt it will resonate with lots of women as it has done with me. I used to have that "stop the ride, I want to get off" feeling all the time.

It has taken me a while to realise that you don't always have to enjoy motherhood to be a good mum but you do need to have a break to enjoy your children otherwise you will trapped and resentful.

Try doing something for yourself a couple of hours a week - going for a swim, having an hour looking round the shops, go to the library and read a book, volunteer at a charity shop, something simple that just gives you the chance to breathe again. Your baby will find going anywhere stimulating so ditch the bobbin crap and go together to an art gallery or something that you used to do. Your sanity is just as important as the baby's. As your children get older I would definitely look at options of returning to work. As long as you're flexible and willing to have a go at anything you could discover skills you never knew you had. That's what happened to me.

You haven't lost your identity, you are just in the process of carving a new one. We all have to do it when we become parents and it's not easy but hang in there. Make some small changes where you can and they will lead to the bigger changes. You're doing better than you think so be kind to yourself.

Thank you all for some very helpful suggestions and thoughtful responses and for those of you that have shared your own struggles. I really do appreciate it.

I've decided I'm not going to give up on therapy. I will tell her at my next appointment that it took a lot for me to share those feelings with her and that I found her response really dismissive. I do like her so hopefully we can move past it.

I'm still not sure about sleep training. I'm worried about the impact on 5yo and whether I can handle it emotionally right now. Will read up on it and give it some thought.

I think I am going to take my DM up on her offer to have the baby overnight once a week though. I've never been good at accepting help and maybe I need to work on that. It will be interesting to see whether my mood, thoughts etc feel less dark after a good night's sleep.

The more I think about it the more I'm looking forward to going back to work in a few weeks. It will be tiring I'm sure but tiring in a good way. My job isn't glamorous or high flying, but it's mine and I enjoy it. I'm excited to feel useful again, to have a reason to dress smartly and do my hair. Instead of feeling guilty and like a bad Mum for not enjoying being at home FT maybe I need to see working as something that will (hopefully) make me a better Mum. Or at least a happier one which has to count for something.

DH and I were talking last night and he pointed out that my work is largely based around looking after the well-being of other people so I spend all day thinking about the needs of others and then come home and it's all about the kids. He thinks I need to do something just for me (a hobby or activity or something) and he said to me "I can facilitate it, but I don't know how to stop you feeling guilty about it". He's hit the nail on the head really. I mourn the loss of freedom but then when I get the opportunity for some child-free time I can always think of a million reasons why it's not practical to take it right now. Because I feel guilty and a big part of me feels like I don't deserve it.

I think many people have a fantasy view of parenthood and reality is a huge shock, especially the never ending grunge work and lack of freedom.

I often think the more longed for and planned DC are the bigger the shock. Also lots of people have little experience of babies/pre-schoolers and erm then you leave hospital 100% responsible for a baby and little clue how to cope

How well you put it SheepofWallStreet.
That would have helped me enormously when I was in same position as the op.

thanks for writing this and reading all the replies has been great for me to understand why i'm feeling the way i am. we just have to remember it's not forever they become less dependent over time.

This is why I suggested Huckleberry because it is not leaving-to-cry (unless you want it to be) and it isn't as extortionate as a sleep consultant (who probably will just direct you to leave them to cry after being fluffy and vague about their methods before they take your money). You can always cancel after a couple of months once you've got the plan, if you don't need any tweaks/support.

I always used to be really anti sleep training because 10 years ago when I had DC1 (and I would think 5 years ago when you had DC1) it all seemed to be either leaving to cry or co-sleeping until they are nine and I sort of went with the co-sleeping because I just don't think that a seven month old baby is capable of understanding why they have been left alone (or that they are not completely alone). But I think the landscape is changing and there are much more in between solutions these days, and sleep training doesn't necessarily mean leaving them crying or forcing attachments to specific things to break. I think you can work on changing sleep habits in a way which respects your baby's level of understanding, need and development.

On the other hand if you're breastfeeding and co-sleeping it might just be better to go with it until about a year or 18 months and then look at changing things? But only if you really feel it's getting you the most sleep now.

I would look at the guilt. Perhaps in therapy? Why do you feel you don't deserve time to yourself? What makes you feel guilty about being away from the DC? Why does "a good mum" have to love being at home full time? If she is home full time, doesn't she deserve a break? If you work full time, that doesn't mean you are 24/7 involved with the job. You still have weekends, evenings, lunch breaks, and holidays. It's clear that any employer who expected somebody to go without any of these would be tyrannical, and their employees would probably burn out before very long. Parents can get burnout too.

I would argue that time away from DC, time to yourself, time to do your own hobbies, your goals (work goals etc) is all essential to your sanity and mental health as a mum. You'll be a more rounded person which means you can offer more to them. And without it being a tired old cliche, what a role model to your daughter? No child needs a one-dimensional ultra-parent who is ONLY concerned with spending as much time as possible and always being there for them. Yes, I would say force it, do it even though you feel bad, give yourself a trial period say two months. I think once you do it, you'll see the DC aren't suffering, you might even see their relationship with DH blooming, you should find you have more energy a nd motivation. Talking on energy, try an iron and vitamin D supplement, or ask your GP for blood tests. Pregnancy and breastfeeding can deplete this.

I haven't read the whole thread but I just wanted to tell you:

You're feelings are not wrong
It is OK to feel like this
You are not the only person who feels like this
You are a good parent
Baby groups are fucking awful - don't do it (did with my first, not with my second. Turns out my youngest didn't give a shit any more than my oldest did.)
Life will get better when you go back to work (if I had to be a SAHM I would become very ill very quickly)

Just read your updates.
For the love of god take your mum up on her offer.
Being a good parent is all about meeting your own needs so that you can meet your children's.
You are modelling to your children how to be an adult. Teach them that it is important to work and have time for yourself, that you deserve to be happy, that all of those things make you able to enjoy them so much more and be a better parent.

And by the way - no one can cope. No one. It's fucking hard. We are all pretending.

Your husband sounds like he really gets it. He's a good one. You absolutely will be ok xx

OP
Thank you again for your first post. I read it again and many of the subsequent replies and it has really helped me. I also suffer from the "guilt", the shitty guilt fairy my DH and I called it. I don't know how to make it go!

Oh my god, OP, I've been there

I hopped skipped & danced my way back to work after both mat leaves ... and gradually the bit of me I felt had died grew back !! I will 100% admit that a lot of my identity is in my job, and when i wasn't working, i didn't feel like myself. I had the same head-tilts going "won't you find it so hard being back" .... and I just answered with a cheery "oh no, delighted to get back to work" .... and fuck the raised eyebrows

My youngest is nearly 4 now, and it does, definitely get easier, give it time.

But I would bet there are many many many many mums who feel like this but aren't brave enough to say it !!

OP, I know this isn't much help to you but the way you describe yourself (perfectionist, prone to guilt, doesn't like to accept help, previously really valued independence) sounds so much like me and the way you've described feeling is something I anticipate feeling when my first is born (much as I'm looking forward to it).

To me, everything you've said (feeling trapped, sleep deprived, consumed with the drudgery) seems a completely reasonable way to feel and I can't tell you how reassuring it is to read that someone else feels this way and doesn't consider it to necessarily be a mental illness (me neither!) but a perfectly reasonable reaction to circumstance.

It also helps me be prepared for feeling that way and ready to be kinder to myself about it if and when I do. So thank you so much for writing this and I hope you are inclined to be kinder to yourself too - that night of full sleep courtesy of your angel MIL may make a world of difference!

*DM not MIL!

Oh dear OP, I too could have written your post 6 years ago. I have 3 DC who I adore but I lost of lot of me when I had them. I too did not get on with my therapist and actually she threw me back by months. I ended up taking AD and they helped me enormously as they cleared my head of the constant negative thoughts and helped me to focus on what was important to me. But they may not be for you.

I agree that you need to find something for just you. I went back to running simply because it was the one time when I could honestly not take a bay with me (when I went for a walk I felt guilty if I didn't have a pram) and running saved me. I still run twice a week at a minimum - it is 100% me time, I run alone with no music, I want to be 100% in my own head and I love it. Perhaps you would enjoy returning to something you loved pre-kids - maybe tennis, yoga, sailing, golf - who knows but you need to find something just for you.

And it gets better - I remember crying at a sport even for DC2 when DC3 was 7 months old. T] I was at the same event this week with DC3 (yes he is now that old!!!) and I saw her again - but I was happy and calm and enjoying every moment.

Oh OP. I get it. I really really get it. So much of what you said resonates with me. I had PND after my first child. I just felt so cheated. It was nothing like I’d expected. It was so lonely and isolated and she was really “high needs” from, say, ten months to at least three years old. There was very little I enjoyed.

Then we decided to have a second child, and we joked “surely we couldn’t have another nightmare baby!” He was worse. But I was in a better place mentally, with family support around, and I coped... just.

Is it depression or do you just hate motherhood? It can be both I actually went to the GP again when DC1 was around 2.5 and literally said “I don’t know whether I’m depressed or whether my child is just a nightmare”. She made me do a questionnaire and gave me a phone number for counselling. I never followed it up - what good would it do, sifting there talking about how hard I find things? Not for me.

Anyway, my children are 7 and 4 now and it gets easier all the time. It’s not easy though, especially when they fight like cat and dog, and the younger one probably has ASD. My husband and I shoot each other looks of despair most days!

An old friend of mine has dream children apparently. Adorable, sweet, biddable, impeccably behaved. Either she’s lying or... maybe children like that do exist?

Sitting in a circle with a group of strangers singing "Wind the Bobbin Up" to largely oblivious babies and pretending we don't all feel completely fucking ridiculous.

Oh god. Nothing sent me into an existential spiral than sitting in some musty church hall singing shit like that. I stopped taking DC2 when he was 2 because I’d had enough of tedious shitty playgroups and their tedious shitty songs.

One thing I should have said - PND poisons your thinking and destroys your resilience. I took antidepressants when DC1 was little and it helped a lot. With hindsight, I came off them far too quickly (that classic mistake - I feel better now! I don’t need them!). When I went back to the GP during the peak terrible twos I would have gladly started taking them again - but got recommended counselling instead. I would have preferred the meds for sure.