Everyone thinks I have PND, I think I just hate being a Mum

[someonecallthethoughtpolice]

Have name changed for obvious reasons. This will be long, sorry. But I think I need to get it out.

I have 2 DC, a 5 year old and a 7 month old baby. I was diagnosed with PND when baby was a couple of weeks old and have recently started seeing a Psychologist having been on a waiting list for a few months.

I love my children and there is nothing I wouldn't do for them. Everything I do is for them. I am entirely motivated to make sure they are happy and very well cared for. But I shouldn't have had them.

If I could go back in time and warn my pre-child self I would. I would tell her that if she has a baby it will be a relentless, thankless slog. Then just as it starts to get easier and she starts to get some semblance of a life back she will end up giving into societal pressure and her DC's constant begging for a sibling and start the whole nightmare all over again, later kicking herself for adding years onto what feels like a self-imposed prison sentence.

I really do love my children. But I don't enjoy parenting them. I find it stressful and boring in equal measure. The relentlessness. The repetition. The lack of freedom and spontaneity. The sleepless nights. The awkwardness of trying to force friendships with women I have nothing in common with because our DC's happen to play together at breaktime. Weekends lost to homework projects, swimming lessons and children's birthday parties. Sitting in a circle with a group of strangers singing "Wind the Bobbin Up" to largely oblivious babies and pretending we don't all feel completely fucking ridiculous. The illness, the mess, the tears and tantrums, the guilt and the worry that however much you do with them and for them it's never quite enough. I hate it all.

I want to be able to eat, shower and shit when I want without interruptions. To leave the house when I want. To sleep all night. To have the time to pursue interests and hobbies. To have the energy to have sex with my DH. To be able to consider career options based on what I actually want, not what will "work around the kids".
I want to be free. I often fantasise about running away and starting a new life in a place where no one knows me. Of course I knew it would be hard, I knew there would be sacrifice. But everyone always tells you "it's worth it". And I believed them.

Of course there are things, moments really, that I like about being a Mum. DD is so clever, she makes me laugh and I love how kind she is to her baby brother and her inquisitive mind. I love the smell of my baby's head, I enjoy making him chuckle and reading him stories. But it's not enough to balance out all the drudgery, sacrifice and above all, the loss of freedom. It doesn't feel worth it. I know it should, but it doesn't.

I feel like I've lost myself completely. I feel like I've taken a wrong turn somewhere and wandered into the 'wrong' life. But I have no right to feel that way because apparently it's the life I chose. So now I'm exhausted, not just from having a baby who won't sleep, but from having to enthusiastically play a character 24/7.

Before everyone piles in to tell me what a terrible person I am and that my DC deserve better, I know. I know I'm lucky and I should just be grateful to have two beautiful, healthy DC. I have a loving, supportive DH. I like my job. I have family close by. I know I have it easier than lots of Mums do. I know that it's not natural or acceptable to feel the way that I do.

I'm deeply ashamed of these thoughts and will spend my life doing everything in my power to make sure that my DC's don't suspect I have them. That's why I've never voiced any of this to anyone IRL, until today when I finally cracked and confessed all to my Psychologist. I told her that I feel guilty taking up her time, taking away a space from someone who is genuinely ill. Because I disagree with my GP, my Health Visitor who referred me to her, and those questionaires they make you do. I'm not depressed. I feel depressed but that's because I don't like my life.

Her response was "I think we should consider antidepressants". I felt like she wasn't hearing me. Or she didn't want to.

I desperately wanted to be a Mum but now that I am, it turns out I don't like it. How is that a mental illness? It's regret, not depression, surely? Yes, I do feel distressed, but so much of that is guilt because I know I'm not supposed to feel this way. And yes, I feel hopeless but that's because I have to live everyday in the knowledge that I've gotten myself into a mess that there is literally no getting out of. But apparently it's not possible to think that, on balance, having your children was probably a mistake unless you're suffering from a mental illness that requires medication.

So am I right in thinking there's no point in carrying on with these therapy sessions when my therapist and I disagree about the situation and from my point of view, there is nothing that can actually be done to change it?

If you actually managed to get through all that, thank you.

OP, I just also wanted to say that a lot of what you've written rings true with my experience of having two young kids.

In hindsight, I wonder perhaps if the age gap you have between DC is why you are finding it tough. I had a two year age gap and it has been a bloody hard slog at times. But as my youngest has just turned 4, I have found life infinity easier of late. I think it must be very hard to have had a taste of 'freedom' (can't think of a better word!) with an older child and to then go back all the shit of sleepless nights, nappies, crying, weaning, bottles etc.

I'd recommend keeping up with the sessions and giving the antidepressants a try. I won't bore you too much with my tale of woe, but last year I felt very similar to how you've described OP, all situational. I went on AD and had counselling. The medication didn't magically fix anything, but they did help me to lift the fog from my life a little bit, enough that I could make steps to work on improving the situation. I went back to work full time and since then have gradually got back into hobbies, making more time for myself etc.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

I suppose the ideal fantasy scenario would be if someone else could be responsible for them but I could still see her everyday...I know that sounds ridiculous.
You mean be a Dad?

It's relentless isn't it? I think you are doing really well considering you are not enjoying it.

Before I had kids, I really wanted them, I wanted at least 6 (?duh). Once I had one I knew I only wanted 4 and by the time I had 2 I knew I was done.

Sleeplessness is the biggest killer. My daughter didn't sleep well until she started walking - she then tired herself out and started to sleep better. Lucky for me she was an early walker.

ADs may be the thing to get you through - even if you aren't clinically depressed (which you may be) they will reduce your feelings of relentlessness. I think, when you get back to work, you will feel better, so long as you get sufficient childcare for you to have a bit of 'me time' outside of work as well.

This too will pass! (But it doesn't feel like it at the moment)/

I LOVED going back to work after my first maternity leave. I could go out at lunchtime and wander round shops, go up and down stairs without dragging a prat with me, eat and read a magazine. Glorious.

I also took the odd day of annual leave and go to London (DC in nursery) or to the cinema or just stay at home.

After DC2 came along it got more complicated because DC1 had started school so annual leave was used up during school holidays etc. But I made sure I got out at lunchtime, walked to work slowly to enjoy the fresh air.

Then I was made redundant.

As they got older I gently suggested to DH that he took the boys to visit his parents alone and leave me to decorate the house. It’s not that frequent but I love it. I get tons done and I don’t have to worry about stopping to cook etc. And yes, I have taken them away solo too.

There’s nothing wrong with how you are feeling. Don’t let guilt become your default setting. Your DCs are loved and cared for. Just because you have given birth, you don’t stop being “you”.

pram! Not prat! I don’t think my DCs are prats!!

The day I went back to work I skipped down the road. In my smart teaching clothes I felt so free. So find what works for you. I suspect it is even worse for young mums now, the pressure to breastfeed longer than you want to, the high expectations to do it all " right". Try and find a way to get more sleep ( will DM babysit during the day?)

missclare your typo made me lol, mainly because I literally nodded in empathy when you said you had to drag a prat everywhere with you. I often feel like that about my DCs! I’m mortified that you meant pram!

I think many mothers have felt just like you do op....l remember dreading lots of the parenting stuff when l was pregnant.....

What really helped was a conversation with my DM who said..'just do it your way'
I never went to NCT, baby groups or craft groups, only breastfed for 3 months as l hated it!, never hung around coffee shops with other tired mums moaning about what little Freddie did ....

Instead l got a robust three wheeled buggy, and set off with my 2 Dcs at 7am with D dog before breakfast, marched/jogged through woods to park, collecting tea and croissants on the way...baby had bottle in park, toddler a croissant..........I felt good for the exercise, no whiny dcs, happy hound...we would get home 11ish calm and happy, Dcs would play in playroom quietly then nap at 12pm for 2 hours...bliss...I would call friends or work from home to give me a different perspective....

After waking up,in summer l used to plonk them on a huge blanket on the lawn with some toys, and over 2 summers landscaped my entire garden with them crawling toddling around, pretty much entertaining themselves under the watchful eye of the dog who was a tremendously good babysitter! I got to do something creative, they got to roam in the grass......l found they were rarely needy or whiny outside with lots to wander and play with....

Also we decided to forgo holidays for 3 years, and instead l had a babysitter one day a week, l left the house as soon as she arrived at 9am and never came home till 7pm once they were in bed...made a huge diference to my life being able to get a haircut, see a friend etc...especially as l had to work most evenings once they were in bed.......
I was very firm on bedtimes too as that was always a huge issue for me, once your baby is sleeping through, stick with a fairly early bedtime as it gives you a window of time to be free.

These things may make you feel urghhh....... but find what works for you and create the life you want...all they need is a happy ish mum.

Don't have time to post much now but wanted to say how much your post resonated with me. I just about made it through mat leave with DC1 but hated it. With DS2 it was so much worse for some reason. I was utterly miserable. Went back to work when he was 5 months old and it was like the sun came out again. Immediately felt so much better. Turns out I'm a happier person and a better mum when I'm not doing it full-time. My boys are 3 and 8 now and I adore them and wouldn't be without them, but I still very much don't want to be with them all the time. Hang in there.

I also second the PP who said, situational depression - where there’s a reason for the way you’re feeling - is a thing, and ADs can take the edge off.

You mentioned feeling guilty quite a lot in your posts. You don’t appear to have anything to feel guilty about, so this could be a sign of depression or anxiety. I hated baby groups and parties but just went to them. Sometimes I felt like a robot, going from one thing I didn’t enjoy to the next. I also didn’t like my job and was under a lot of financial pressure. The things that have made me feel better are stopping taking the pill, or using any hormone based contraception, taking antidepressants, eating a lot of good stuff and never getting really hungry, stopping drinking alcohol and sleeping whenever I get the chance. My younger son started waking up at that age. Is your baby eating well during the day because being hungry can make them poor sleepers. You also need some time to yourself, can your family help with the baby during the school day so you can have a bath, nap or do something you enjoy?

Don't feel bad! I felt the same too. In fact I was so rubbish at looking after my baby I had to put her in nursery 1 day a week just to get some form of normality back! And of course there will be people saying "she's a bit young to be in nursery" or generally making you feel shit for your choices but how the fuck are you supposed to parent properly if you're not functioning right?

Give yourself a break, whether that means nursery, or going back to work, don't feel guilty, do it, have some of you time, your baby will be well cared for! And you'll feel so much better in yourself.
Just give yourself time

Young kids can be shit. They are often rude whiny and argumentative. And they never leave you alone. (I love mine, but God if an adult treated me the way they do I would be long gone after about an hour!)

So to a large extent what you are describing is pretty normal. Go back to work, get professional sleep help, lean on DH more. Or to put it in simple terms “Be More Dad”.

Your time will come. It gets easier. And sooner or later the rose-tinted specs will make this time seem pretty decent after all

Thank you all so much.

I can't tell you how glad I am that I started this thread now. It's such a relief to discover that I'm not the only person who has felt this way. It's an even bigger relief to hear from people who felt this way for a time but don't feel like this anymore. I feel vaguely hopeful for the first time in months.

I'll try to answer some more of your questions. No, I don't get a lot of time to myself but that is mostly down to me. I feel guilty for doing anything just for me, like I don't deserve it, and I'm not feeling very motivated to do much anyway at the moment.

DH is out of the house from 7am-7pm. This is unavoidable at present although he has recently gone for a promotion that would mean he could work from home some of the time so fingers crossed he gets it. He loves being with the DC and is a much more 'natural' parent than me in some ways. He does all the cooking (his choice, he enjoys it) and his fair share of the housework. He is happy to help out with the baby at night but I'm a light sleeper and always wake up anyway. Plus I worry about him having an accident if he's too tired as he has a long commute so I think I do sort of 'take over' sometimes.

Someone mentioned hobbies. Honestly, I don't have any and that makes me a bit sad. I used to, before kids. Maybe part of the problem is that I've allowed my life to gradually become all about DC to the exclusion of everything else. DH has said quite a few times that he thinks it would be good for me to get out and do more, to meet new people etc. I know he's right but I feel like I don't have the energy or motivation, I'm just trying to get through each day, which I know could be depression or just tiredness. Maybe I need to force myself?

I do go out for drinks/dinner with friends maybe once every 6 weeks or so and I really enjoy it once i'm there but I always have to fight the urge to make excuses and cancel the day before. I think the less you do, the harder it is to get out and do things.

Lack of sleep is a big issue, yes. We don't really have the money for a sleep consultant as someone suggested. Money is tight at the moment with me being on maternity leave. I will check out the app that was mentioned though. A couple of people mentioned "sleep training", do you mean leaving him to cry? I'm not sure I could do that. Absolutely not judging those that do, I just don't think I'm mentally strong enough. Also I'd worry about him waking our older DC, she's in her Reception year and gets so tired as it is. I'd feel bad about her having to go to school exhausted having been kept up all night by a crying baby. My DM has offered to have the baby overnight once a week so that DH and I can both get some sleep. I haven't taken her up on it yet because I feel like it would be taking advantage of her and I'm worried that if we start that and she finds it too tiring she won't feel able to say. I think part of me also feels like I should just be able to cope like everyone else seems to.

I dont think theres anything wrong the way you feel Op, so go easy on yourself. Some people are not naturally maternal and everything you described resonate with me.

You actually sound like a really good mum who puts too much pressure on herself. You may not take delight in hearing your child repeat themselves for the seventh time but some (alien) people enjoy it. We can’t be perfect at everything. It’s a strange thing to say but please do less for your children for the sake of your mental health. You don’t have to play with your 5 year old all the time- playing alone can be good for them. Overall mothers spend something like 40% more time on child centred activities today than they did in the 70s.

If you can, try to claw some time back for yourself. Tell your dp to take the kids out for the day and do whatever you like. Tell him you’re having a night off and deal with the dc without you. Run a bath and if anyone dare knocks on the door then shout, “fuck off”.

I know it’s not a perfect solution but hopefully it’ll help you feel a little more normal.

It's probably worth telling your therapist that you didn't feel heard. I'm surprised they offered meds (I've no opinion on whether they'll help or not, I don't know but I'm surprised your therapist recommended them - it doesn't seem like the best space for that so I'd tell them how it made you feel)

I'm only 6 months in to motherhood but I hear you! Going back to work has helped me. Ditching baby groups. Hobbies. Good luck to us.

We did very very gentle sleep training. More a ‘breaking of bad habits’ than sleep training. Not much crying or upset. And slowly spread out. Not in 3 nights. I kept a sleep diary to note the improvement and setbacks. And it has worked. We did it with both kids and they are both good sleepers now.

Oh I SKIPPED back to work. Cup of tea in peace. Going to the loo in peace. Going to work is so so so much easier than wrangling a baby. I find everything does improve after 3 (and for me after 18 months- once they can walk and communicate they are more interesting people).
A couple of practical things that have helped. Over time (once the baby is older) but you can get DD to do this now: get everyone to tidy downstairs before bedtime. Then when they are in bed you don’t come down to a shit tip. And they learn early on to help with family chores.
Get DD to help with jobs. Unload the dishwasher or put the laundry in. Again, helping with chores. In fact DS1 and I have long chats while doing our chores. He directs me to what needs to be done these days!
Get out of the house if you can. As much as possible. Not to baby groups but just to a park or whatever. Weather permitting have lunch in the park, milk on getting home and nap.
I also get DH to do a set list of chores in the morning which includes being in charge while I shower, eat a cup of tea and have toast. (This was on mat leave). This means getting up early for me. But that tea/toast/shower made a big difference to me. I would then pack the changing bag and DH would make me a sandwich for lunch. We would sort one load of laundry. And DH would head out.
That way if the rest of the day went to shit I was dressed and fed and the bag was ready to go out and there was lunch in the fridge for me that could be eaten one handed.

I also found that my mental health drastically improved when I returned to work. I was a SAHM for 3 years. It nearly killed me.

OP if you ever want to chat please feel free to send me a PM- I really do understand how you feel.

I felt that way for quite a bit after my second DC and for a few months after my 3rd. I wasn’t depressed but I found it hard to accept my current reality and that I had to find a way to be in it- no point wishing things were different I guess, but I did. I felt a lot of what you do. I’m quite introverted, though social enough when I want to be- but I can’t do fucking baby music/sensory/yoga whatever, especially the noisy ones. Fair play if it works for people and gives needed social contact etc but I never ever did it and loads of people assumed I was depressed- no, I just hate the groups and don’t want to substitute seeing my DH (long work hours etc) and ‘old’ life for a sodding tambourine.
I resented a lot about it.
I don’t now and although I find being a SAHM difficult at times I also no longer feel that crushing horrible feeling that i’ve ruined my life. I find joy in it now the way I hoped I would. Hope you find a path through too. If meds would give you respite til the sleep thing is easier, for example, then maybe take them?

You are not wrong to feel like this, it's perfectly normal, you've just got the guts to write it down and admit it, I take my hat off to you. Just count how many people have posted that they also felt like this. And then add 1 more - me!

Bringing up young children is bloody hard work. It's exhausting. It's all Peppa Pig, piss and poo. Over and over and over. Day after day.

But it does get better. I promise.

I have 3 DC, 26, 12 and 8. Sometimes I think "My eldest is 26, I should be putting my feet up!" No chance of that with an 8 year old. By the time she leaves primary school I will have been doing that school run to that same school, day in day out for 20 school years in total. If she were to leave home at 18 (highly unlikely, my eldest at 26 is still at home) then I will have been 'mumming' in-house for 36 years, minimum. Jesus.

But I wouldn't change a single day. My kids are an absolute joy. I just need a break every now and again. I don't get it, but never mind (I'm a single mum, work full time).

Just take one day at a time. When your DC are older, you'll look back one day and wonder where the 'young years' went and these feelings will be a distant memory. Someone said to me once, "The days are long but the years are short." That is so true.

If the little one is only seven months I'd maybe wait till you start sleep training, relentless I know but 7 months is still little.

Also, do not feel guilty. Do not conform to these idiotic societal expectations of soft play, baby groups or baby yoga.

I can't stand that shit. With DS I'd get up, walk an hour to a coffee shop with him in the pram, have a coffee, walk home. He'd usually sleep the entire three hours! That's what I wanted to do, that's what I liked doing. No baby groups and inane conversation about oz per feed or whatever.

It was definitely harder with DD though, I spent most of the time indoors simply trying to get her to stop screeching (she hated the pram, car seat, wouldn't settle etc etc) and so I skipped back to work when she was 9 months.

You're doing a great job, honestly.

I don't think the way you are feeling is unusual at all. I think you have your head firmly screwed and know exactly what you want from life. You absolutely don't have to be glued at the hip to your children. Get a childminder/nanny/au-pair/nursery/afterschool club/whatever and pay them to do the childcare. The fact that these people are there offering their services validates the fact that you are not alone. You absolutely aren't the only one wanting/needing someone to look after their little ones. Your kids will be fine, they don't need your undivided attention 100 percent all of the time. At the end of the day - not everyone wants or can be a full time mother - it's ok - you don't have to be. Remember you are in charge of you! Good luck

Oh and I absolutely agree with all the posters that are saying you should sack the mummy clubs.