people telling me Dd needs to be sectioned

[BananaJam11]

Dd is 15 and I can't say she's a saint but I'm fed up with people telling me she needs to be sectioned.

We've been through and unsuccessful camhs referral and various other unsuccessful referrals.

She refused to talk about how she feels to anyone but I know she's hurting. She self harms,shares posts about suicide.

She's ran out the house at silly hours of the day/night which caused a neighbour to say 'that girl of yours needs to be put in hospital'. She's attacked family members who then tell me she needs to be sectioned. Even friends have said she's 'crazy'.
She has these breakdowns where she will cry,shake,scream,harm herself ,I've tried different gp and speaking to the school who aren't very supportive. I know it's not alright but these people are in no position to tell me my Dd is crazy. It's exhausting for me too.
She needs counselling not a section.

I'm sorry for the long post . I just needed to vent

WhereDoesThisRoadGo I am extremely concerned that as someone who works with troubled people you subscribe to the outdated belief that those who self harm etc are 'attention seeking' and are in need of 'more discipline'. This has to be one of the most damaging beliefs in the mental health system. It is incorrect and harmful. Those who self harm or exhibit other distressed/distressing behaviour are almost always doing so because they are in unbearable distress and they do not have the internal support system to cope with these feelings. Most have experienced trauma of some sort or another. I feel you need to go on some training to update these worrying beliefs.

I would suggest to the OP that worrying about what other people are saying is not going to help her daughter and that she look into the possible causes of her daughter's distress and push to get her some long term counselling that possibly includes the family as these sorts of behaviours rarely occur in a vacuum. And challenge any mental health worker who claims she is 'attention seeking'. I wish you the best as I appreciate what a difficult situation you are in

As someone with ummiediate family who have been sectioned it needs to be very extreme in the current NHS climate to be admitted to a psychiatric ward. I don't think from what you describe she would be sectioned if she's coherent enough to disguise what's going on. My brother had weeks in and was still a bit of a state when he was discharged as they are so short of in patient beds it's only the real extremes they'll admit

this must be incredibly difficult for you as her mother.

Forget whether people are saying horrid things out of trying to be helpful or just being stupid - in fact, I really really think sectioning would be the safest option for her. There are health professionals for a reason - we often need them to step in to give really careful help. If she had appendicitis or heart issues you'd be going to the hospital - this sounds like similar pain for her, only it's a mental health issue. That isn't taboo and it's very common - the issue is family knowing when the time is right. In this instance I'd say you need to explore that option now.

Coming from a woman whose cousin went through a similar thing (in her early 20s) - she's now happily married with DC

Sorry OP but I've dealt with the MH sector for a long time and I think you may be in denial.

Your daughter definitely needs professional help ASAP.

It sounds dramatic at first when you hear the word "sectioned" but I think this may be a route to consider going down.

I do say this in the nicest possible way as MH is not the easiest thing to deal with but your daughter needs you to do what's best for her even if you think it's severe.

Phone your MH hospital or GP and explain she needs an urgent assessment.

She may not need it atm, but she definitely sounds like she needs help to regulate her emotions before she spirals as an adult. It's expected that teenagers go wild, but as an adult she would most likely be sectioned.

I have just read your update in which you say she doesn't tell the truth and 'manipulates' people. Then, as another poster says you need to push and make a fuss. She may be scared, she may have a fear of becoming out of control. Sadly the help available on the NHS is pitiable and even if you get it there is no guarantee that she will get help from someone with the right level of understanding (though this isn't impossible). To get help you will need to fight - there is no money and they won't want to give you anything apart from maybe CBT initially as it's cheap though she sounds as if she needs something long term. Most of the time they don't section anymore unless the situation is extreme as there are no hospital beds and to be honest I don't think a hospital setting is the most healing environment (mental health wards can be awful places). I think the most important thing you can do is try and understand what is causing her distress.

I was the same at that age and was taken endlessly to doctors but never sectioned. It does depend on what your local MH services are though - sectioning in a hospital doesn't always guarantee people get what they need, unfortunately. Also for some psych illnesses actually being on a ward with others has the opposite to the desired effect (this was why I was never put on a general psych ward) because it can actually exacerbate the behaviours. I'm not saying this is the case for her but it might be one factor in the decision against the section.

Maybe try talking to her about why she doesn't want to be helped? It sounds like getting her to engage of her own free will would be more likely to help (that probably sounds simplistic but of course I know that's not an easy task!) . If she harms herself or you think she's at immediate risk of suicide you can go to A&E and see a duty psychiatrist. It's sad that often people have to be in the worst possible state before they get sectioned and this is so tough on those around them worrying about them.

Keep pushing for support and try and get her to understand that engaging with therapy could be a way to let out some of the pain she's clearly feeling. Has there been some trauma that preceded her becoming unwell in this way?

Rethink Mental Illness has a good advice line you can call and lots of 'SOS' info on what to do when someone is having an episode like the ones you describe 9i.e. don;t confiscate tools for self-harm, things to say/not say, who you can call). It's very frightening but often this outward distress and self-harming is a coping mechanism that externalises internal pain and actually helps them steer away from suicidal ideation. Try and let her know you understand that therapy is a scary prospect but that you'll support her through it and she doesn't have to say anything she doesn't want to. Wishing you the best - my parents really struggled and you're not alone, I have people contacting me in similar situations a lot (feel free to pm me if you'd like, this is something I do as part of my job and I also have a role in a charity).

Maybe you'd get some support from other parents so you can stay well too x

It is very hard to get sectioned these days, and then normally you will only be in for a very short time. I wonder OP if the GP could refer you to the Crisis Team? They might be of some help.

It sounds like your DD is in need of help and support with her mental health. She is very probably unwell if she is harming herself, attacking family members, posting things about suicide and having episodes of what sounds something akin to a breakdown.

I agree friends or family telling you she is "crazy" is not at all helpful but perhaps they are concerned for her and for you, plus if she has attacked them, perhaps for themselves. If you have been attacked by someone, it may be a reflex reaction to call her "crazy". Doesn't make it ok, but may explain it somewhat.

I don't know if she does require to be sectioned- that can only really be determined by mental health assessment- but I think she does need assessment of some kind. Perhaps you are right that she needs psychological therapy (not counselling) rather than anything else and nobody on the internet can really give you guidance on that, so I think you need to go back to your GP (or CAMHS, if you have direct access) and explain the situation. Explain what she has been doing and what she says when she does get to CAMHS, it's the best chance you have to get help.

Also to those saying she needs sectioning - I think OP is saying that although she knows her DD needs help, she's not been able to get the professionals to agree and other people telling her her DD is 'crazy' is not very helpful!

You are right, she needs psychotherapy and not sectioning

Second what Brasty says- although I think you should see your GP again regardless, if she has any more episodes of extreme distress with self-harming, posting about suicide etc, then perhaps ask GP (or even out of hours GP if it happens overnight/at a weekend) to refer to crisis team. Most areas have an acute crisis team for mental health.

I'm sorry you're both going through this crazy is a very unhelpful term to describe someone in emotional distress, suffice to say I agree with posters that she needs help and compassion.

Thank you to you all . I will call the gp tomorrow. I wish I knew what was causing her this distress but she won't talk to me,she lashed out at me this morning for giving her a hug and punched a hole in the wall which is what made me post this. Her latest Facebook status is 'slit my wrists and hope to die,can't survive another night ' .

She posts things like this and shares dark song lyrics but papart from self harming she has never acted on them. I've taken screenshots to show the gp

I have no advice, but unless they are mental health professionals then those people are in no position to call her crazy. Good luck with whatever you decide to do, OP.

my friends dd got sectioned at 15 for repeatedly taking overdoes, attacking family members etc, she is now 22 and a functioning, happy member of society, she was sectioned to stop her harming herself and to enable her to receive the treatment she needed

There are also lots of social media groups where people share their stories like these. Is it worth looking at those? I know it helped one of my old friends with her health problems.

From my experience, sectioning is usually when other methods haven't worked out and the person is a danger to themselves or others.

Being on a psych ward is not a pleasant environment so please please get help while she is at home. Start with the GP for medication and referrals to Mental Health community team. Good Luck.

Your GP can also arrange for her to be assessed. Many many people self harm and talk about suicide. Only a small number go on to actually try and kill themselves. An assessment is about trying to assess the likelihood of her going on to do this.
This must all be very hard for you and you can talk to the GP as well for any possible sources of support for you

Wow, surely CAMHS professionals should see through her denials. It must be so frustrating for you to get an appointment and then no support afterwards. Has she had help from CAMHS or similar in the past? Do they make any suggestions or let you speak to them separately so you can give them your view of how she is?

Perhaps next time she harms herself you should take her to the gp or A&E so it's on record. The chances of her being sectioned are miniscule imo (lack of resources as much as anything) but she will hopefully see a mental health practitioner who will offer some guidance.

Not much help but I do hope you get some support soon.

Take her to your GP and ask for a psyche referrral, it must be upsetting for her too - ignore what others say and get proper help - good luck

It is not an issue of whether CAHMS can see through her denials. If she won't engage, there is nothing they can do. How can you counsel someone who denies there is a problem?

I have spoken to professionals without her and voiced my concerns but it always comes down to her making out everything is perfect when they go through the assement. I found out from parents evening that she's been caught multiple times cutting herself in lessons or crying. The school never called me on these occasions to let me know because Dd told them I already knew she self harmed.

My Dd was like this. She was being severely bullied by someone when she was at school . She and we were so very lucky that she had a fabulous councillor at school. This may be of no help at all to you but we were told when she wanted to cut herself/ self harm she should run her wrists under the cold tap . As strange as this sounds it worked.

Sectioning under the Mental Health act sounds like it's exactly what she needs to be able to access the urgent counselling it sounds like she is in desperate need of.
She hurts herself and other people, lies about it and threatens suicide on a regular basis.
By being hospitalised, she may accept that she has reached the point where she needs more help than you are able to provide her with on your own.