people telling me Dd needs to be sectioned

[BananaJam11]

Dd is 15 and I can't say she's a saint but I'm fed up with people telling me she needs to be sectioned.

We've been through and unsuccessful camhs referral and various other unsuccessful referrals.

She refused to talk about how she feels to anyone but I know she's hurting. She self harms,shares posts about suicide.

She's ran out the house at silly hours of the day/night which caused a neighbour to say 'that girl of yours needs to be put in hospital'. She's attacked family members who then tell me she needs to be sectioned. Even friends have said she's 'crazy'.
She has these breakdowns where she will cry,shake,scream,harm herself ,I've tried different gp and speaking to the school who aren't very supportive. I know it's not alright but these people are in no position to tell me my Dd is crazy. It's exhausting for me too.
She needs counselling not a section.

I'm sorry for the long post . I just needed to vent

[erinaceus]

BananaJam11

Yes, it is overwhelming. Whether your DD is being or has been abused, though, is not your problem to solve at the moment - this is what professionals are for. You don't need to know what is on her mind before you go to the GP. You only need to describe what is happening now. If your DD is not ready to open up, she won't. I was asked dozens of times as a teen about what was going on for me then. I was not able to say. The important threads of the story did not emerge until a long time later. And that is okay. I am still here.

[muffinbluffer]

I agree with Lottie that you don't know exactly what is causing her to react this way...sexual abuse (which I am assuming you are now considering) is one reason but there are many many reasons besides...I think it would be unhelpful to make assumptions as to the exact cause...the fact is, she is hurting and in distress and needs a level of support that you simply can't give through no fault of your own....if she ever opens up about what is causing it it really needs to be when she feels safe to do so...

And to the above poster (sorry forgot your name) who suggested 'mental injury' as a substitute for mental illness - I like this idea! Perhaps it would reduce stigma....

[Gabilan]

the way she reacts to any physical contact or hugs makes me wonder

I hated being touched and it wasn't due to sexual abuse. I was bullied, had very low self esteem, hated myself and loathed being touched. I agree with PP - there are many things that could bring about that reaction.

I am much, much better now. Not overly huggy, but that's just me, I think.

[BananaJam11]

Perhaps I'm just over thinking it. I'll call the gp tomorrow and keep and eye on Dd x

[imip]

This also sounds entirely consistent with ASD!

As a pp says, the manifestations may be the same, but the underlying cause different. It's great to have such a variety of experiences to help you fight your dd's corner. Do make a go appointment. You don't need to take her in the first instance, but try to take a detailed history.

You could also try to talk to the SENCO, but GP first.

[Lottielottie42]

I hated being touched to , especially by my parents and I hadn't been abused they just made me cringe and I had a few years of pushing them out and acting as if I hated them. I feel guilty now but it's just how I felt at the time !

Tell the GP everything good luck . Once you get a refferal to camhs call them when there are incidents that concern you. Also really recommend early help as they know a lot about a huge amount of things and can write supporting evidence to camhs and open resources you don't currently have. Good luck

[messofajess]

Muffinbluffer I have heard that before as well. It really makes me so livid how hard it is to get proper mental care or even guidelines on how to approach and care for other people in crisis. There are always a hundred numbers to call and all these hoops and swings.

The hospital I was in was absolutely terrible and they did release me as soon as they could. 4 days after a suicide attempt so on my own personal experience I would suggest if someone can care for her to not go that route but of course mental health and wellbeing is so different for everybody. Therapy doesnt work for me but good life coaching did and of course therapy works for loads of people.

Banana your GP has a lot more sway than you might think at first as well. Unfortunately it can be so frustrating for you to watch her get bad enough to realise she needs help. I know I didn't "come out" with my sexual abuse for a good 10 years.

[messofajess]

Also really loving Mental Injury - it sounds far more relevant to me than illness

[dottycat123]

Mental health beds for 15 year olds are few and far between. I work in an mental health team in a general hospital under 16s can be sent 100 miles if sectioned to get a bed. The criteria for sectioning an adolescent is high. There are risks that her self harm may increase if she doesn't get help but it doesn't sound as if she is requiring to stay in a general hospital for treatment. It sounds like trauma is behind this . I suggest keeping pushing for camhs assessment but it is difficult if she won't engage.
Slightly aside the police have the power to take someone to a place of safety under the mental health act if they are concerned that a person is mentally ill in a public place (section 136) but once taken to the place of safety are not involved in any decision to section and their opinion has no legal influence.

[Albadross]

Mental injury doesn't cover the underlying genetic factors involved in things like BPD though, which just make trauma impossible to process. I wish there were better ways to describe all of this. It's awful that despite all the awareness campaigns telling people to seek support, when they do there isn't any there. So many of us have been through decades of this shit.

Mine turned out to be BPD plus ASD and I repeatedly sacked off any treatment but things are ok and I salvaged a pretty decent life somehow. OP I hope you find something to help and please don't give up hope, she's lucky she has you in her corner

[Gabilan]

Mental injury doesn't cover the underlying genetic factors involved in things like BPD though

I wasn't suggesting that it did, just that in some circumstances it's more appropriate than illness. We divide physical ill health into injury and illness, so why not MH problems?

And we know that to a degree we also experience physical injuries differently. Two years ago I had a nasty fall off a horse and sent a shock wave through my SI joint. If I'd had less muscle I might have broken my bones.

I do regard some of my MH problems as being like wounds which haven't fully healed. There are scars and weaknesses, just as I have from physical injury.

[erinaceus]

Mental injury and mental illness are both useful concepts, as is mental health, if we want to be positive for a moment.

Hope you're OK OP

[Graphista]

Thanks for your kind words op. to fellow survivors of both csa and mental illness/injury.

My reason for thinking bullying/abuse is in teen girls self harming can sometimes be about making yourself unattractive which is quite common in csa victims/survivors. Loads of us are overweight, don't like wearing make up etc.

Also the reluctance to talk even to counsellors (as with many adult victims of sexual assault we think we have some responsibility for it happening and in some cases abusers will actually say that 'you shouldn't parade around in such skimpy clothes then' etc and especially abusers in a position of authority over and above even other adults are very formidable when you think about disclosing. It took me to my 20's to disclose and I wasn't believed) silence can speak volumes. Also abusers can threaten awful consequences 'you'll end up in a home' 'I'll kill your mum' are not uncommon threats.

There's also the possible 'mean girls' scenario which my dd went through - the girls I thought were her 'best friends' were actually being emotionally abusive. It all came to a head and spilled out when the bullying became physical and dd sustained an injury that was clearly non-accidental. They were controlling who she spoke to, who she sat with, what she wore, her hair style truly bizarre behaviour.

And I know you wanna go all mother tigress roaring at anyone who hurts her but it's not helpful for her. I'd also warn against directly asking if she's been abused. If she hasn't that's another thing to worry about (I'm making mum think all sorts) if she is she might be terrified you're onto her secret and she isn't ready to disclose. There are people specially trained to gently extricate such information.

Priorities too, right now the priority is to keep her safe from harming herself or others. One thing that would possibly happen if she became an inpatient and she has been abused she's sadly highly likely to meet another survivor and that may help her.

Re other pps I like the mental injury thing. I'm thinking of all my friends that have mental illness diagnosis and not one hasn't experienced a trauma (abuse, extreme bullying, assault, sexual assault, loss of a child or other very close person especially unexpectedly, physical injury or illness suddenly changing their life...).

There is a genetic component to most mental illnesses but I believe that's a predisposition to not a guarantee of being a sufferer

In my case I believe

Genetic factor + learned behaviour (I believe certain family members are undiagnosed sufferers) + trauma + head injury + too much 'normal' stress = my mind going 'nope too much can't cope'

When speaking to others even with very different diagnoses the stories are very similar.

Eg 'I didn't think it was that weird my mum and uncle do it'

[BananaJam11]

Thank you all and thank you Graphista .

I've made a list of things to tell the gp so hopefully it goes well.

Dd wouldn't get off her phone last night so it ended in me taking away her phone and sending her to bed and her getting upset and having a break down. When she's like this she'll even try to climb out the window and run out of the doors are locked . I'm currently sat in her room watching her destroy her things,I'm worried she's going to harm herself badly.

[BananaJam11]

I really don't know when it's appropriate to call for help,I don't want to waste people's time

[erinaceus]

Is your DD physically safe at the moment? It doesn't sound as if she is, but it's hard to tell from here.

Feel free to PM me if you would rather.

[imip]

Gosh banana this is also still consistent with ASD. Do read up, just to see if it is worth mentioning. In my dd, this would be a meltdown. Trash her room, try to jump out the window. Dd is only 8.

[Lottielottie42]

My DD is the same very phone obsessed and taking it always results in conflict. We kind of reached a happy medium that it's out charging just outside her bedroom door, but she can still see it with door open by 11 on school nights and I don't worry about weekends. ASD , PD or any other condition may explain behaviour BUT I don't allow it to be an excuse. ASD or not in society people aren't going to accept violence so I have called the police when violence is shown. It was enough to stop it happening again.

[BananaJam11]

I'll look into it,thank you .

She managed to calm down although she did harm herself. Getting her to school is the problem now. She's worried she's made herself late (she won't be late) and now doesn't want to go because being late makes her anxious and ruines her day.

[erinaceus]

I was going to say, violence against you or against property -> call the police.

Violence against self -> call an ambulance.

Both the police and the ambulance have been called on me and on people I know, on separate occasions. I have also called the police on someone myself when I thought that they were at risk to themself. The decision about whether you are wasting time or not is the professional's decision to make. A crude way of looking at it is, a death of a teen by suicide uses up a heck of a lot of resources in so many spheres. If you are in a position to advocate for your DD's needs, then this is what you need to do, in the face of her denial to MH professionals. If you alienate her from you along the way, then that is what has to happen. The mother-daughter bond is strong, and can endure a lot. By this I mean, prioritize her and your safety; the rest is recoverable in time.

Do you have support for yourself in all of this, for example from DD's father or from close friends? If you are going to the GP today, you might want to consider asking about support for yourself too, such as support groups for parents in your area.

[erinaceus]

Is the school aware what is going on at home?

[Gabilan]

I hope it goes OK with the GP today and you start to get the help you both need Banana

[BananaJam11]

Gp has referred her to camhs and said there's quite a long waiting list . Dd refused to go . I phoned up the school and spoke to the head of year who also has some concerns about Dd.

[imip]

Yes, sadly cahms waiting list is very long indeed. It's a shame school haven't mentioned concerns to you sooner. I'm not too sure whether school, or seeing an ed psych at school, could move her up a waiting list???

[fannydaggerz]

Being sectioned will give her 24 hour care, prevent her from doing anything stupid and will help to break down the walls she's built up to help with the root of the problem.

You're her mum and want wants best for her but going by your description, it could be what's best for her short term. It's hard to see what's best when you're close to the person involved.