Lelarose Desperately Depressed #2

[thatsnotmymonkey]

Hi Lela, I hope this is OK, come over here. We will all be here for you. xx

Please try and put some faith in the professional help you are being offered, they can assess you best and have come accross people like us many times over.

In my depths of despair i just assumed I would be sectioned, have my baby taken away and was quite gobsmacked that no one else seemed to thing I was anything near that bad. My point is I felt truly dreadful and expected someone to 'do' something about it. I eventually realised no one would take it all away from, the pain and despair that is, me but with their support and anti depressants I was able to muddle my way through somehow and reached a point where everything felt ok again. I know I could not have done it alone, so please accept every bit of potential support you can get with an open mind.

I have not gone into great detail about my own experience but believe me I felt the worst I have ever felt in my life and can relate to alot of what you describe. You ARE somehow getting through the days despite how dreadful you feel so give yourself a big pat on the back.

Lelarose, sorry today wasn't more productive for you. Do take the offer of the nurse to visit you as any help may benefit you in some way. I had a client who had quite serious PND and the team she had came to the house and they really helped.

Could you afford to have a doula? Sorry don't know your whole story but I had a very anxious pregnancy and looking back I wish I had more help than I had. Seeing so many different doctors/MWs didn't instill any confidence in me.

Have you been to antenatal/birth prep classes? (apologise again as have only read this thread)

I'm a qualified pregancy yoga teacher and have a lovely relaxtion CD you could borrow.

Its good that they will admit you to the M&B unit after the birth. But I have to say I'm a little flabbergasted that they won't admit you now - I have no experience of this, but surely giving you the extra support now would be beneficial. After the birth is all well and good, but its almost like shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted type of thing iyswim?? I mean I guess they are providing extra support with the nurse - and I know it hasn't necessarily felt all that helpful in the past. But maybe this new one will be different. Could you request a mental health nurse that has had involvement with the mother and baby unit so is sort of in tune with what you're feeling?

But like others say...you are getting through the days. I know, its easy for us to say - you're having to live it and I know its a monumental struggle some days. Did you speak to the psych about your medication at all?

XXX

Surely if they have a nurse visit you it will be a mental health nurse? It has to be worth a try, they might be great. If nothing else it'll help pass the time. The psych obviously thinks you are coping. That is a bit typical that a male health professional wouldn't understand that a home birth is less scary than a hospital birth. It makes perfect sense to me. I loved the thought of sitting in my own house with a decent cuppa and introducing cat and baby.

This is probably not what you want to hear - I think I disagree with others here - but I am not sure that it's a bad thing that they are not admitting you to the hospital now. When you're feeling as low as you do, then you just want something to change and hope the hospital would be better, but it wouldn't, necessarily. You would be there without much to do and without the comfort of your own surroundings (however uncomforting they feel at the moment). At home you can make endless cups of tea, cry, mumsnet (!), etc. In the hospital you are a psychiatric inpatient, which to be honest isn't much fun.
This isn't to say, of course, that if you were feeling really out of control you shouldn't ask again to be admitted. Also, after the birth it might be better, because then they can give you more practical help.
It's unbearable for you right now Lela, I know. But keep hanging in there and doing whatever it is you're doing to keep yourself going.
Also probably not what you want to hear - I had an elective caesarian with my first pregnancy (and my second, actually), so I can't tell you anything about giving birth at the end of such an awful pregnancy. The other posters are giving much better advice and help than me there. I suppose a c-section would be offered to you, too, if you wanted it, and I don't think there's any shame in it. But if you want a natural birth and a home birth, that's great and you should push for it (no pun intended).

Lela, I think I agree with jane, and I hope we've all built up enough of a relationship now to know that none of us are taking how you feel lightly, or in any way trying to belittle or diminish your feelings. But you are hanging on in there, and the end of this stage is so very close.

Remember, when the baby is born the time for carrying your secret is over. And if you get admitted then, PND is so much better "accepted" and understood than AND, people will just generally be sympathetic and understanding. After the baby is born you can face your fears directly, with none of the secrecy and half "what ifs" that have been plaguing you. My gut feeling is that faced with this real, tiny, sweet-smelling, soft skinned wee boy, probably looking a lot like your DH, instead of an endless stream of images of other people's boys who you can't engage with, will be easier than the unknown quantity you're carrying at the moment.

You have come so far. We will help get you through to the birth, ok? And your body will know what to do, so choose teh kind of birth that in your heart makes you feel safer. That may well be a hb. It might well also be an elective cs. There's no shame in any choice you make about birth, and if you want us to talk through the pros and cons as we see it, then just let us know.

Thanks.

It doesnt surprise me they wouldnt admit me today it just gets me a bit that when I get really bad everyone seems to think its the only answer for me but I'm not allowed to make that choice. so unless i attempt suicide I am stuck here alone even if I get to the point I literally cant take it. Just would be nice to have options.

Please excuse my ignorance but can anyone explain to me about what the advantage of a vaginal birth over a caesarian is? Do you still go through contractions and stuff? (I really know nothing about it). i mean, why does anyone want to do it naturally if you can choose t have an elective caesarian?

I kind of thought you are supposed to do it vaginally unless its an emergency but I'm getting so scared now I dont know what I'll do, especially if they tell me at next scan baby is much bigger. I have a massive fear of being ripped as i said before and my vagina being ruined. Sorry if tmi but hey, you have heard worse admissions from me.

Hi Lelarose

Sorry I have been absent a while (RL of the not so good type got in the way) however I really just want to say that although you probably cannot see this, you are doing so well just to get this far.

I cannot really imagine what you are going through right now as my really severe depression did not kick in until post natally, although while pregnant my already present depression just got worse with every passing day and the sense of impending doom that I had to go through the birth and then becoming a mother to a baby (and a boy) that I didn't know if I could love or feel ready to be a mother.

WRT a MABU; the experience I had was fantastic for me and I honestly do not think I would be here now if I had not been admitted.
It is a personal decison however; if you feel that you can just about keep going without being admitted, that is good.

But, only you can know what the tipping point is, and if you reach the stage where you honestly cannot manage; I know from the friends that I met inside the unit that you need to be very honest and assertive with your healthcare providers. One close friend was over her tipping point but was not actually believed, until she felt she had no other option to say that she would harm her child unless she was hospitalised (she wasn't and she would not have, but she could not convey how desperate she felt in any other way).

Some of how you cope depends on the support you have directly around you; and when you have been let down by your family when you need them most it is far more difficult to cope on your own.

For me, although my dh was physically there, I felt so disconnected from him as he could not at all understand how despairing I felt - he had no experience of this and did not expect this after what should have been a happy event. My Mum was worse and actually disowned me when I told her I was being admitted to a psychiatric unit (I really did not want to go in voluntarily but would have been sectioned if I refused). Words cannot express how gutting it is when you cannot count on the support of those who you should be able to rely on; however I have rebuilt my relationship with my family, and although I cannot forget what was said; my family have rallied through in the end, and I am sure that you will rebuild your relationship with your sister.

Regarding your fear of tearing or being torn; I think that is quite natural. I was terrified of tearing badly, and obsessed about perineal massage and dreading any interventions. In the end fate intervened and I had a very medical birth with forceps and had an episiotomy and tear (oh the irony). It was painful, but only for a couple of weeks and it's healed ok. There is a slight scar, but it's not that noticeable. And as for the vagina itself; it really seems to work in the same way that it ever did with no real difference.

I'm afraid I don't have any medical knowledge, but I believe that CS do carry more of a risk of complications for both mother and child overall - although literally a life saver when needed.

I have read somewhere too that a vaginal birth means that a baby is less likely to have respiratory problems when born as the passage through the birth canal sort of squeezes the mucus and gunk out of the baby's lungs.

Please don't (although I know you will!) worry too much about the birth. Most people do find it painful in some way, but it can be a manageable pain. In some strange way I would actually like to go through it again (although minus the intervention bits if possible).

I am sure that you can do this. We are all rooting for you, and you will be a great mother. x

Hi Lelarose, I've been reading your thread for a couple of days now, and it sounds quite a lot like the horrors that I went through when I was pregnant with my son ( 17 years ago ) but it kinda feels like yesterday! I was 30 when I became pregnant, but still my mother spitefully pressured me to "get rid of the bloody thing, cos it'll be born with 2 heads and no legs and be dead by the time it's a year old" All this she said in the hospital ( 17 weeks pregnant ) when I was already suffering the most unbelievable depression and confusion,having just found out that the father of my baby was a bloody career criminal, so I'd dumped him. All alone is bad enough, having evil family telling you you're a useless pile of shit is truly something else...I finally ( after sooo many years of being put down and undermined by her, told my cow of a mother where to go-she still tells everyone that I'm the one with the problem :( I believe she has a mental illness, which makes her into an uncaring, cold monster :( All I can do is keep well away-which makes me feel so bloody guilty! Sometimes we just can't win!
I have discovered the hard way Lelarose that life just isn't always easy, and at times we go through terrible things that leave us thinking we just can't carry on. But these are the things that we must go through cos that's what this life is all about!
I could tell you so much more about my life, sexual abuse, rape, emotional abandonment....
My God yes life is bloody awful at times, and you think "how the hell am I gonna get through this", as I'm doing right now with all my problems :( Fight, that's what we'll do, and show the bastards we're not giving up! Can I ask why you're so afraid of having a boy? xx

Well, an elective caesarian counts as major abdominal surgery, so the downsides are the usual risks involved there, except that it's generally not under GA, so that's a reduced risk. Recovery time is longer, so you can't drive, lift heavy things, etc for a while - 6 weeks? Babies can be a bit more snuffly/gunky, I think, as fluffy said, as they don't go through the birth canal. That said, iirc, most of the risks assoc with cs are to do with emergency, rather than elective cs. A good friend of mine had very severe tokophobia (fear of giving birth) and so had two elective sections for her sons. My sister had an em-CS for her first, and elective for the second. Both my friend and my sister did have good experiences.

Why do people have vaginal births? Because most people, luckily, aren't suffering from depression and anxiety, so although they may get nervous, they're able to rationalise it, and know that's what their bodies are designed for. I have to say, the memory of feeling ds in particular arrive is just wonderful - I was a bit tired with dd!

Scans are not great for predicting big babies, but as you haven't got gestational diabetes, it's highly unlikely you'll have grown a baby too big for you to deliver - I'm 5'4, and dd was 10lb 11oz. I did have a tear, but didn't know it had happened - was very surprised when they mentioned stitches. ds was 9lb 1, and came flying out!

Call your MW again - talk it through as honestly as you can with her.

Thanks for your brilliant and helpful posts. Although I wish it hadn't happened to you, I'm glad I'm not the only one with a shit family on the verge of admission to a psychiatric hospital! See I keep up an act here, where not even my dp can believe it will really come to anything like that.

sailorsgal- thanks for the offer but have several hypnotherapy cds as believe it or not I have done a hypnobirthing course as well as attended every NHS antenantal class I could. I've just got to the point where I'm afraid I dont even listen to the positive affirmations or relaxation stuff because my stupid head just rejects it- I just dont believe I'm capable of giving birth in a way that wont be hideous.

kibbutz Im very ashamed of this but I'm scard of having a boy because I didnt realise until I was pregnant, but I only ever wanted a daughter. Its very hard to explain, but me having a boy just seems completely wrong and unnatural and totally freaks me out. I wake up every morning and my first thought is that this cant really be happening, I pray its a bad dream then realise its not and feel horrendous all day.

I do not relate to boys in any way, I have no interest in them, I have a terrible experience of males in my family, and basically I wanted my child to be a girl more than anything in the world. I wanted a mother daughter bond, from the stupid wee things like doing her hair and buying her nice clothes, to helping her through the teenage years and being friends in later life. I hate boys names, clothes, toys and all the stuff they tend to be into and I worry about them being hyper and agressive and never having a close relationship with them.

I have a terrible fear that I will not bond with my son, that I will never be able to enjoy being their mother, or be any good at it. I will just have to go throught the motions, or worse I will somehow damage them. Most of all, I can't come to terms with the fact that I'll probably never have a daughter- this could very well be my only child.

I dont need to be told that this is gender stereotyping and the ladies on here have been tremendously helpful pointing out how different their boys are from my ideas of male children. I guess it goes deeper for me, I think I wanted to try and relive my childhood with a girl, trying to make sure she had all the happiness and love I missed out on being dragged up by very damaged people. I dont wnat to repeat a negative cycle, I'd rather die than harm my child.

Btw, to anyone new reading this, please realise that I know my feelings are not right or acceptable.
I know I'm priveleged to be having any child, I should only care about their health and not their gender. I am certainly not someone who took pregnancy or having a child for granted in life.

Its the shame and disappointment in myself fo reacting so badly to having a boy that has made me so ill with depression. I dont think its ok and I'm sorry if it offends anyone.

Just please dont tell me how selfish or bad I am for being like this, I already know and I'm too unwell to take it. Thanks.

Only you lelarose know how you feel and you should be able to express your feelings/ thoughts so don't apologise if it offends others.

I am praying and hoping you get all the help you deserve. x

lela - you're not selfish, or bad. You're unwell, and it's so sad. But remember - your boy is part of you and dp - you are kind and gentle people, and wil raise a kind and gentle boy. Some girls are hyper, and with hyper children you build in a lot of activity to let them let off steam.

I know about trying to relive your childhood, and it does make sense, but I still think that having a boy may be a blessing in that it breaks a cycle - it's possible that you'd be more anxious in some ways with a girl not to repeat the "sins of the past", whereas with a boy you will be creating a new picture, with you, dp and ds. It won't look anything like your old painful family.

Remember again, your dp is already helping you to know that men, males, can be utterly wonderful, so every time you think of ds, and when you meet him, focus hard on the kindness, gentleness and thoughtfulness of yoru dp, look in your boy's face for your dp's features and find your comfort in that. You never have to identify with any other boy, ever. Just this person who is made of you and the man you love.

I think that you thought you might find healing in raising a girl, in some ways, and it really makes sense. but try and leave yourself open to the possibility that a boy may bring healing and health and hope in a way you could never have imagined.

You are doing really well, despite how it feels, lela. Your inner strength is holding, and you can do this.

Hi Lela - I have been following your thread for a few weeks. I just wanted to add that your fears about the birth are entirely normal and you mustn't feel that they are in any way a product of your depression. Every first time Mum-to-be has exactly the same fears and concerns. I wasted hours, days, weeks of my first pregnancy worrying & stressing & panicking & generally being horrified about the birth; would my undercarriage be intact afterwards, would I ever be able to have sex again, was I going to be wetting myself every time I sneezed/coughed/laughed forever more - honestly lela its the same for everyone in that respect. Talk to your midwife about these concerns - its nothing she won't have heard before. Arm yourself with information & advice (perineal stretching, NICE guidelines, hypnobirthing, C-section info etc.) - do as much research & preparation as you can & ask for an appointment with the consultant if neccessary to discuss alternatives. This is something you can have control of.

Just so as you know, in my experience Mother Nature eventually does something very clever & once you hit late pregnancy, you honestly, honestly stop giving a shit about the birth - all you want is the baby to come out because you get utterly fed up of being big & uncomfortable & pregnant - and at this point your fears will just evaporate. Not in some romantic, dreamy, I'm-going-to-be-a-mother sense, but much more a I WANT THIS TO BE OVER NOW sense - honestly the fear & anxiety just disappear

For what it's worth, lela I think you have tremendous courage & this will see you through the weeks to come.

lela I wanted my child to be a girl more than anything in the world. I wanted a mother daughter bond, from the stupid wee things like doing her hair and buying her nice clothes, to helping her through the teenage years and being friends in later life. I hate boys names, clothes, toys and all the stuff they tend to be into and I worry about them being hyper and agressive and never having a close relationship with them. all the hopes you have expressed here are things you can do with a son.believe me the boys these days are just as fussy as the girls when it comes to clothes,hair etc, and either sex will play with cars,bricks,dolls and so on.You have already showed in previous posts how you are concerned about not damaging your baby,there is no way that you will not turn out to be a very caring mum.

jetli- at what stage does this usually kick in? I'm 37 weeks and still worrying about all the things you mention x

Lela, it's probably different for everyone but I know I was very fed up after my due date had gone. I'd been lucky and had enjoyed my pregnancy up to that late point, but all of a sudden the tiredness, swollen feet, pressure (from everyone wanting me to have the baby) etc got too much and I needed him to come out! Of course in my case baby didn't want to so I had induction which led to c-section. So the last two weeks were very frustrating and I spent the whole time looking forward to labour pains, water breaking, etc! Sadly for me I didn't get to give birth naturally as I wanted to, but even when it came to the c-section I found myself very calm and just said 'of course you can do it if it needs to be done'.

There's no point saying enjoy the birth (though plenty do!) but our bodies are designed to get through it and you will get to the other side.

And 37 weeks - wow! You are nearly there :D

Ooo Hamster, same as me. Going overdue, being induced, emergency c-section first time, failed induction second time then c-sec. No labour for me so can't comment on that but here are my thoughts: recovery from c-sec for me was hard. I was most upset that I couldn't just get out of bed and hold my baby the first night (still numb / hooked up to stuff) and then couldn't get up easily for a few days. Women I saw who'd not had a section were up and about more (and I hated them!)

Try to remind yourself (as I did, pre-childbirth) that practically 100% of mums you see have been in that humiliating situation - bits on show to who knows who, the pain etc - and they're still out and about, dignity and sense of humour intact.
Ultimately you come out the other side and you get your nice clothes back on and you realise what a magnificent woman you are for having done so well, whichever way you actually ended up having the baby. It may take time (I beat myself up a bit about not managing to do it all 'properly') but you get there. I know you are worried about bonding with your baby. I found the C-Secs rather impersonal, as if I'd not worked towards the babies, that they somehow were just brought by magic round the blue curtain. I think a normal delivery might have made me feel as though my babies were more mine at the time of their birth.

I really hope you can have a lovely home birth with pain you can handle and a real sense of relief and joy when it's over. I'm sure that can happen. If, however, it doesn't work out that way, please don't blame yourself as it won't be your fault. You will still be a magnificent woman who's done an amazing thing and everyone will be so proud of you. That's how it works, as far as I can see.

I would say any time now you'll start to get to the "Dammit I WANT THIS TO BE OVER!!!!!" stage lela - but most definitely & most acutely as you get to your due date as FortunateHamster points out.

FWIW I had lots of intervention & an episiotomy and everything here is still in good working order - honestly there comes a point when you get totally past caring. I juiced 2 whole pineapples, had a belting hot curry & a bonk with DP & still would have consented to a rusty knife & no anaesthetic to get baby out once I hit about 39 weeks. A skim of any of the overdue threads in pregnancy shows I wasn't alone.

Thinking of you.

xx

Lela I have said this to you a few times before - but you are the only one who thinks your feelings are not right or acceptable

Your feelings are your feelings and I'm sorry they hurt you but you are not bad in any way.

Thanks ladyintheradiator, that does give me a bit of hope. Your brother sounds a bit like one of mine. Its good of you to be so honest about your initial felings about having a boy, so few people are and it makes me feel like a freak.

Thank you all for the reassurance about the birth. Sometimes I sit here and imagine how I would feel if I went into labour right now, and part of me just feels resigned to it, and the strange thing is in many ways I'd rather just be left alone with it for as long as possible. I'm sure I won't feel like that at the time though.

I should explain that I once had an x ray on my fallopian tubes where they injected fluid into them and it was the most intense and excrutiating pain I have ever felt in my life, and totally unsustainable, and I'm scared that this is what contractions are like. I wouldnt say I was particularly delicate, I think I have a higher pain threshold than most people in fact but I actually screamed and felt completely out of control of my reactions. This has really stuck in my head and if labout is anything like that I will need an epidural which sadly I cant get at home.

I dont want to change this into a childbirth thread really but does anyone have any experience of taking diamorphine during labour and how did it affect you and then the baby?

Please keep posting it really helps, as I'm just on my own here the vast majority of the time x

lela I don't think labour will feel like it did when they injected fluid into your tubes.

That sounds like a very intense, acute kind of pain.

Labour starts off a bit like period pains, a dull aching pain. And then the pains build as the contractions get more intense.

It is the sort of pain you can deal with, esp with gas and air and because they build up gradually it's not a sudden shock to the system.

TENS may help in the early stages too (although TBH, I felt it was more just swapping one kind of pain to another kind of pain).

Please try not to panic about labour.

I had morphine during labour. It certainly does help with the pain but it did make my baby sleepy - probably because I had it too near the birth. So if you are going to have it I recommend having it early.

Ooh, that sounds awful, lela. Much, much worse than labour and birth to me!

Like getdown says, it sort of builds, and you get used to it - it's like bad period aches, but also because they come in waves you get a breather. They make you want to make odd moo noises, and I had a urge to stick my head into dh's stomach (he was standing in front of me).

Things which help:

I quite liked TENS machine in first labour - didn't bother with ds, though. I found it a nice buzzy feeling. You can hire them in Boots.

A gym ball in the early stages (but also v good for just sitting on in late pg) - I found lightly bouncing on it nice during contractions. You can get them in Argos - would recommend you get or borrow an electric pump if you do get one, though. the baby would be born before you'd have inflated it with a bike pump.

Gas and air is your friend. It's like instant, pleasant drunkness, but the woozy feeling wears off instantly when you breathe air, so you don't lose control.

Warm water is great. I'd have liked to labour in water, but for various reasons it didn't happen. I did have baths with dd and ds in early labour, and that really helped.

Moving around and changing position also good - you kind of need to do what your body tells you.

I had morphine twice. Once when delivering dd1, where I had it twice, as it didn't matter to poor wee dd1. It was v good pain relief, though made me a bit strange - mid-contraction, I had a terrible desire to know the name of the youngest child in Malcolm in the Middle. Fortunately DH had the prescence of mind to know and just answer!

Had it early on with dd, and it did help - should tell you that I ended up having her without anything, even G&A, because I wasn't really focussing by that point, and consultant took it away! I had a really good and trusting relationship with him, so though I shouted at him, it wasn't stressful, and for me it was right. It was sore, but never impossible. And she was huge.

With ds I had bath, then G&A throughout, and it was fine.

Just to reiterate - labour pain is a slow build, and comes in waves which give you a chance to recover and prepare. It's nothing like what your injections felt like - if you can come through that, then you can definitely cope with labour and childbirth.

Finally - lela- this is your thread. We can talk about childbirth as you want us to - this is about all the support that you need, so just ask away for what you need.