Lelarose Desperately Depressed #2

[thatsnotmymonkey]

Hi Lela, I hope this is OK, come over here. We will all be here for you. xx

37 weeks, you have almost made it now! I'm quite excited for you, even if you aren't. Soon you will be a full blown member of this gang of women who can share their birth stories (did it today at work). You will be so bloody proud of yourself and rightly so. No more secrets from DP. No more wondering what birth will be like, it will be behind you and if there are sore bits, they'll be healing soon enough, you'll be back to normal before you know it. I really hope the time comes we don't hear from you for a few days then you're back to tell us DS is here and you love him to bits. If not, no matter, new challenges, your MN friends will be right here with the shared wisdom of hundreds of women who have raised hundreds of children and experienced every ailment and untoward incident known to woman.

I never got to my point the other day, when you said DS rooms wasn't ready. My point was DS came before we were ready, and I had to send my parents to Boots before we brought DS home. It sounds like you have the essentials (what are they again?). I'm guessing DS will be in with you to start with? So you won't need his room to be ready for a bit. So long as he has somewhere to sleep, a few changes of clothes (vests and sleep suits will do), nappies, might be worth having bottles, steriliser and formula just in case (PITA, I know if you're planning to BF, but that's what I sent M&D to Boots for. In fact there is a lot to be said for a small supply of ready made formula). Have I forgotten anything?

I had nothing for dd. We had to stop at Tesco on the way home from hospital to buy sleepsuits, etc (wel;l we had one pack - she wasn't naked).

I had morphine - twas lovely - much like having 2 delicious pints of Guinness on an empty stomach . It did make for a sleepy baby though & you need to be aware that the effects can last up to 5 days in the baby - I was surprised at that when the BF midwife told me. I hadn't expected it to hang around & cause a sleepy baby for quite so long afterwards. But once you have tactics & techniques for waking them up & rousing them to feed, then its fine.

TENS is one of those odd things - I used one but was never really sure if it made a difference or if it was more of a distraction - something to fiddle around with. For the sake of £20 or so, I think it's worth a go. I'll be using one this time around again. Other women swear by them so its different for different people I think.

Oh & I had my tubes checked with the dye & that's bloody awful. Labour is very different.

Is the baby ok when they come out of the sleepy stage though after morphine? I mean they dont go through any kind of mini withdrawal type thing do they?

No they don't go through withdrawal - they just get some morphone in their system and they are sleepy until it clears - the main issue if any is that they can be uninterested in feeding for a bit as they just want to sleep - but babies are born with reserves.

Hi Lela
Have not posted before but have been following your thread. Just want to say how much I admire you for hanging in there and I'm sending you the biggest in the world. I just wanted to add my labour experience in case you maybe can take some comfort from it! I was terrified of labour as I suffer from a bad back and with each passing day drawing nearer to my delivery date, I felt like I was on a rollercoaster I couldn't stop that was hurtling me towards certain devastation - I hated that feeling of not being in control........but I learned I HAD to accept it as there was no turning back. As it happened, my back was fine and I spent so much time fretting over scenarios that simply did not happen. I got by with a Tens machine (a godsend - as Jett said, definately a distraction as I spent so much time fiddling with the knobs when the contraction was heightening that it took my mind off the pain - invariably I turned the knobs the wrong way and ended up a few times switching the damn thing off, but it helped!) I also had gas and air - incredibly relaxing leaves you quite chilled out. Towards delivery, I felt quite mellow! I used a birthing pool - it was lovely as the midwife lit candles and we had the radio on. DH kept nipping down the vending machine and I munched on Tracker bars and had loads of lovely chilled orange juice to drink! It was quite pleasant and nothing like I'd expected it to be. Unfortunately, I had to vacate the pool as I had to have a forceps delivery as baby was in distress - I had a cut but felt nothing as I was injected so everything was numb. I didn't even know baby had popped out. Try not to panic Lela, your body does take over and you will just want the baby out. And like for me, it surely won't be as awful as you are imagining.Then you can start to bond and be the fab mum I;m sure you will. Loads of love xxx

No, there's no withdrawal at all - they've just had one dose - a lot less than the mother, and the mother suffers no withdrawal either. Can you have morphine with a hb?

Oh, gosh, yes - lay in a store of snacks and cereal bars, etc. I was ravenous after having dd.

Thats good to know- diamorphine is the only pain relief bar gas and air you can have at a home birth, but the midwife said about it making the baby sleepy. I asked her to get me some anyway because I need the reassurance that I can get this pain relief if I need it.

Todays a hard day. Mananged to get dressed in nice clothes and put makeup on and go to tesco (cant keep living on crap becasue I'm too depressed to face the outside world). Was proud of this- sad but true as I used to have a pretty full life- but it was very very difficult and saw so many little baby girls their and was overwhelmed with jealousy. I wonder if this will ever pass.

I think a lot of people must walk round supermarkets and the like wondering "what if?" be it about having a girl/boy/husband/baby/more money etc. Sometimes it's very hard to understand why you don't have what you want when other people seem to have what you want. They might want what you have though! Doesn't make it any easier, I know, but I think it's pretty much one of the things that makes us human.

Very well done for getting out and looking good, that's a real achievement. (I do know what it's like not to be able to face going outside). Hope you got some nice food to treat yourself with and can enjoy an afternoon with your feet up, guilt-free. You deserve it!

Lela, Well done you for putting gladrags on and getting to Tesco. Hope you bought some good and yummy stuff while you're there!

I had my 2 DS's by C-section. First was by necessity, second I chose because I didn't fancy the risks of a VBAC (better the devil you know) but they were elective as they were planned and I didn't go into labour beforehand. I'm pretty sure you can for mental health reasons request a C-section as I think a friend of a friend had that done (but then she also went privately). Can't advise on labouring. Sometimes wish I had had a taste of what labour would've felt like and also feel I have to get in the 'too posh to push' jibe just in case anyone gives me the face. In a way it feels like I had them 'removed' rather than feeling the 'badge of honour' of childbirth. But in the grand scheme of things it doesn't bother me one jot. They're both here, both safe and labour or C-section that's the best you can hope for.

I found my 2nd C-section a little bit scary...operation wise. Not that it was, just that for my first I was just worried about DS1's health rather than what I was going through. I also don't tolerate morphine - makes me hurl - not too much fun spending first few hours post-op feeling sick. Not everyone feels sick with morphine though. (They also have wonderful anti-sickness injections that made me feel fab!) After it was quite painful...but bearable. I picked up wee ones fine, even round the house and up the stairs. Found going out in the pram on my own a bit of a struggle until maybe 2-3 weeks. Can't drive until 6 weeks. It all sounds quite a long time of incapacitation, but it really does speed by. You're so busy that I didn't really ever feel confined in that time. And the worst of the pain is over by a week.

And preparation....pah. I did have DS1's room prepared (but no hospital bag prepped at all - cue frantic DH and me with all the wrong sort of knickers post-birth!) but I remember thinking - why did I bother?! Hardly used his room until about 3 months in because he was just in a Moses basket in our room.

And your boy....he won't be like your brothers or father or the boisterous, loud, bolshy boys your eyes are drawn to in the supermarket. You've let DP in...so not all boys are bad - some are quite nice really aren't they?! He will be a little DP mixed in with a little you.

lela, the more I get to know you, the more you impress me. You are such a fighter. Each time you fall into a black pit you manage to climb out and do stuff - like getting out, and not only that, but dressing well and putting make-up on; you simply refuse to let the despair engulf you, and that fills me with so much hope and faith in you and your new wee family.

I think one thing that's impossible to properly understand until you have your own child is the - hard to put into words - stages of progression you go through with your own child. I can totally understand how you can't relate to other boys at all; to give an analogy, when I'm in town (St Andrews), and all the kids come out of high school for lunch, they quite dwarf the town, and they're so big and noisy and dress like maniacs, and I think "I can't handle a teenager". But then I remember when dd was wee, and we went to toddlers, and there were all these huge 2yos tanking round, and I thought, "I can't handle a 2yo!"

Well dd is 4 next month, and I've realised that because she's mine, her stages are meaningless, or maybe I mean not distinct, in the same way that others are - she didn't suddenly become a hulking 2yo, and she won't suddenly become a hulking/sulking teenager - she's my baby, writ larger, and I don't have to "create" toddler, or school-age, or teenage relationships with her or ds because the relationship has been there right from the start.

God, I'm making no sense. I think I mean that you see these boys, and they appear so fully-formed that it's impossible to imagine starting a relationship with them, but that's what so great about babies - they're so wee and soft and cute, and their needs are so uncomplicated, that all you have to do is start making the relationship there - suddenly you look round, and your child is the "big one" and they're just as lovely as they were when they were newborn.

When dd was born, I thought I should breastfeed, but was enormously squeamish about it - very much in the camp of "if they can ask for it and bite, they're too old". the thought of bf-ing a toddler made my stomach turn. Lo and behold, 20 mo later I was still bf-ing dd - still found the idea of bf-ing someone else's toddler unpleasant - but mine? Great, normal and lovely, because that's the relationship I'd had with her from the start - I hadn't had to suddenly start feeding this walking talking thing, just not stop feeding my baby.

Phew - Lela, if you've got through this and made any sense of it at all, your late-pg brain is better than mine was.

Och I've just made such a mess of all this. Maybe if I'd not found out the sex I just would have accepted him when he was born and not had to go through all this. Its impossible for me to forgive myself for how I've handled things, I'm such a messed up idiot.

I just need my dp home with me, its another 10 days to go and I'm really struggling without him, he's only been home one week out of the last 6, its horrible.

You know the problem, I just love women and all things feminine. Like do you think there are groups of men who have never actually met out there supporting each other like this? I very much doubt it. I love female friendship, I love clothes, make up, girly things. Not pink and fluffy, but just womanly. The girls clothes for little ones make me want to cry, I know how stupid and shallow that sounds and its not just about that, i just see myself so clearly with my little girl, this hurts so much.

habbibu I know what you are trying to say, like your child is your baby, not just a toddler or a teenager that you see objectively. I think part of my problem is this constantly projecting into the future, imagining some awful little boy taking over my life, with me looking at them thinking why oh why were you not a girl and it seems so cruel but its how i feel. I guess I have no idea what its like to have my OWN child and I need to remember that.

As for the birth, I swing between natural home birth and elective caesarian on pretty much an hourly basis. They are giving me a last growth scan next week, and part of me feels like not going because if its 10lbs or something now I really dont want to know.

Finding it very hard to eat healthily, as proper food need so much more preparation and I'm too bloody knackered. This is probably part of the reason I have chronic constipation too, and I'm sorry for sharing that but its also getting me down, so if anyone has any advice of how you deal with this in pregnancy please tell me. I am going to have to find a way to sort it before the birth but dont know how.

Thank you for letting me have such a self indulgent moan, it does help when I have no one to talk to in real life.

Lela - well actually...

there are group of men who do precisely that - my DH is part of one. He plays an Internet based game that you play with a group of others and they talk about all sorts of things while they are at it. People often know where to find him with marital or other problems and he's been invited to a wedding taking place next year!

I think men support each other, but in different ways. A while after we lost dd1, a friend of dh's came to stay for a night. he and dh went out to the pub, and dh came to bed just beaming - like a weight had lifted - they'd just talked about it, and he felt so much better.

you're a lovely messed up not-idiot, lela. Maybe you should try picturing yourself having a daughter like me - never interested in clothes, make-up, girly things, hated babies, wanted to climb trees and ride horses and be an engineer. I'd have run away from dresses and ribbons like a shot.

I do like clothes now, mostly, though my sister thinks I am Very Practical and despairs of how I dress my own daughter.

Re constipation - lots of water, fruit and fibrous cereal, plus on another thread people were recommending Lactulose.

Listen - No Such Thing as TMI on this thread - if it's getting you down, then tell us.

Was thinking about home birth versus hopital...I was very lucky with both, DS1 uncomplicated hospital delivery, DS2 superb homebirth. I never thought my hospital experience was a bad one but the main difference for me was that the midwife in hospital although great was in and out of the room, causing my DH more distress than me but at home I had two senior community midwives who did not leave my side, I found that immensly reassuring. At home I was persuaded to labour in the bath and ended up actually having him in there. Again I would not knock the hospital but at home the after care was great, was so impressed by the care I recieved I even wrote to the local health authority to let them know. The warm bath water really helped ease the contractions along with gas and air.

Don't know if this helps atall, I basically had a positive experience both times but the home birth comes out ahead.

Well done for getting out today....you are doing so well

re. men supporting each other, I think they do it, only slightly differently. I used to post on a forum largely geared towards videogames that had mostly male members and aside from the videogames sections there was a big off-topic, ask a question section and other advice-y bits that were used a lot. But they counter it with more piss-taking and less admittance of feelings.

I don't think it's shallow to love little girls' clothes. I was at a breast-feeding support group the other day and there were three baby boys and one baby girl - we were all admiring the fact her pink knickers matched her pink skirt! The thing is, you can find nice stuff for boys - it is just much much harder. I would, when you feel up to it, maybe look online and try and find the shops that do stuff that isn't just boring blue stripes etc, clothes that you can actually look forward to dressing your son in. Oilily clothes are nice but expensive - I found a cheap bodysuit in TK Maxx though and sometimes there are bargains on eBay.

I empathise with it being hard to feed yourself in late pregnancy - you just won't have the energy to slave over a stove. I know there are some online places where you can buy proper home-cooked meals and get them delivered (prob. pricey though).

As for talking on here, it's not self-indulgent really, it's normal and a good way to reach out to people - I've had online friends I've felt closer to than people in 'real life' for years - people I might meet one day, and people I never will. After all, behind every stupid user name (like mine :D) is a real person. I would've been very lonely in pregnancy without forums like this to ask questions and chat on.

Also, you are welcome to my Tens machine if you want - it'll need new pads but I think they're quite cheap. Am happy to post it to you if you want, just ask :)

Thanks very much for the offer, my dp has a tens machine, I just need to figure out how to work it.

I am going to try for the homebirth and if it gets too hard just go to hospital. why cant i even bring myself to listen to my hypnobirthing cds? I guess I just want to block it all out.

I know not all girls are into girly stuff, I just love little girls though, I cant help it.

yay for you. Little girls are nice, naturally, and I wouldn't want to put you off them. But I sincerely hope - and believe - that your wee boy will surprise you. Holding your own baby is an extraordinary feeling - this whole, warm little human who a few minutes ago was inside you, now lying snuffling in your arms. I remember just stroking ds's wee hand, and marvelling at it.

I'm going to make an admission now - one of the things that put me off having a boy was seeing other baby boys' genitals . I remember being about 6 and seeing my next door neighbour changing her baby boy's nappy, and thinking his wee scrotum was horrible, and then when a friend had a baby thinking the same thing. I kind of knew ds was a boy (had vaguely seen on scan, I think), and part of me had this sinking feeling - daft, I know, but since we're trying to be very open (!). Anyway, I remember really clearly with ds looking at him naked and thinking "but it's all just you, and you're lovely, and you're mine, and every tiny bit of you is lovely", and it was quite a revelatory feeling.

I mean, obviously what I was feeling was pretty trivial compared to how you're feeling, but it was amazing how my squeamishness and dislike just evaporated when faced with my own boy. And he continues to astound me - he's impossibly beautiful, with a huge dimple in his left cheek, and a smile that could charm the birds out of the trees - his sister worships the ground he crawls on, and vice versa.

I probably wouldn't mind having a boy if I also had a daughter. Its the knowledge that this is likely to be my only child and even if i have another they may also be male that I cant live with. Makes me feel like I dont want to live.

I really dont think I'll ever properly accept this.

Oh, lela - sorry. I didn't mean to make you feel worse.

You are not well, though, and I hope you can hold on to the knowledge that your illness has magnified your feelings out of proportion, and that as you get better, they will likely subside to the occasional sigh and "what if" feeling that you can live with.

It's not the same, I know, esp as I never actually got depressed, but when dd1 died for a long time I didn't want to feel better, didn't want to let go of the pain, or the anger. As it subsided, and I found a home for it, I realised that although some pains and hurts don't go away, they turn into something akin to a bad leg that aches on rainy days - you're aware of it some days more than others, and it's slightly in the back of your mind, but you really and truly can live with it.

But time and mother nature has a great way of making you forget the bad times when it comes to having children. Its probably part of our genetic make-up to ensure survival of the species!!! DS1 was a very poor sleeper and eater as a baby and me and DH couldn't ever fathom having another baby and felt complete with one. Then one day lo and behold - yup, time for another. And here I am...mother of two. Again its not to trivialise your pain and how you're feeling now as I know that that's going to take some time to get over. But you just never know what the future holds.

Think about it....this pg has given all sorts of insights into your psyche - OK, not much fun for you. But you have the chance after Master Lelarose is born to get some proper, long-term therapy to address those issues. I'm sure it won't be all plain sailing and it won't be easy, but you have the opportunity to put those demons behind you. Maybe without having this wee boy you might've never realised your feelings were so strong and so - I don't know - needing to be addressed rather than just filed away in the recesses of your mind just waiting to bite you in the arse at the most inopportune moment?!

And after that is addressed....who knows the sky's the limit, isn't it? You might well go on to try for another wee Lelarose! And yes, nothing is certain in life as to whether it will be a girl or not - but the chance is still there. And by then maybe your head and your heart will be open to whatever is thrown into the mix, boy or girl.

Habbibu....my heart aches for you in your last paragraph - sorry don't mean to hijack but (((Habbibu))).

Lela, I thought the same as Habbibu...there's a place for your heartache - some things you don't forget, you don't necesarily 'get over' - with the therapy or whatever, there's no magic wand - but you might learn to live with them in a way that is not acutely painful/uncomfortable.