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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Beautiful3 · 22/10/2020 19:09

Hello BigChocFrenzy. I'm so glad you made a new thread. Kitchen closed at 484. That's 3 fast days and a mini fast completed this week. Well done Thursday fasters. I'm Looking forward to a beef seeded sandwhich tomorrow! BigChocFrenzy, 21 degrees is a lovely temperature! It was 13 degrees here!!!

Bottl · 22/10/2020 19:12

Thanks for the new thread @BigChocFrenzy

Bottl · 22/10/2020 19:13

@Beautiful3 - enjoy your sandwich tomorrow - sounds like you've earned it!!

moonlight1705 · 22/10/2020 19:16

Ooh thanks bigchoc

I've had two more minis yesterday and today. Ended up on 990 yesterday and 810 today.

Today was good in that I was at the archive from half ten onwards so had a big breakfast and have just had dinner skipping lunch altogether. Think I have dated my house back to 1835 rather than 1880 when we originally thought it was built. Grin

MadauntofA · 22/10/2020 19:20

Yay, new thread! Thanks Bigchoc! NFD here.
Well done Beaut and Moon!

MadauntofA · 22/10/2020 19:23

I have to say Bigchoc, you've converted me to toasted almond flakes! Just a few sprinkled on both yoghurt and also savoury dishes just adds a different texture and taste.

Darker · 22/10/2020 19:24

Getting ready for my 3rd fast day of the week tomorrow. I’m optimistic about dropping to the next stone-zone next week if I can keep this up.

You lot are inspiring me!

inthethickofit19 · 22/10/2020 19:27

Wow lots of motivating chat!

BCF thanks as always for creating the new thread and letting me know as well.

@Beautiful3 how far are you from goal weight?

I've managed an FD today but starting feeling worse for wear by 6pm so in bed. My head is starting to pound but it's not continuous, just waves. Hope I'm not coming down with anything.

Look forward to weighing in tomorrow, hope I'm under 9st 10.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 19:59

Sorry folks, I was enjoying tea / supper outside at my neighbourhood Rhine cafe

I had a lovely long walk in the sun, back in shorts & T
It very suddenly became several degrees colder at ~ 4:30pm, so I charged home for trousers, thick top & furry boots to go eat

The waitress offered me a blanket - apparently that's a regular al fresco thing now Grin - but I was warm enough without

MadAunt I'm glad you enjoy flaked almonds too now

Yay, you'll soon be down into the next stone, Darker !
That'll be a really encouraging milestone for you

Well done on your FD, Beaut
Enjoy that special beef sarnie tomorrow

You did really well, inthethick

re headache:
that's often caused by your body being short of salt & other minerals while adapting to fasting
On FDs, I recommend glugging down a level teasp Marmite (10 cals) mid-morning and / or mid-afternoon to replenish these. Glug down like medicine, even if you don't like it !
Alternatively 1 tbsp of no-sugar soy sauce
Or have a miso soup (~ 35 cals)

Well done on your mini, Moonlight
Mosely used to do his FDs (600 for a bloke) with a system of breakfast & supper, so he could always eat with the family

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 20:01

What did you do today, Bottl ?

OP posts:
Coffeeandcookies · 22/10/2020 20:08

Thanks for the shiny new thread BigChoc! NFD here today, am fasting tomorrow, anyone else?

Bottl · 22/10/2020 20:39

Sounds like a lovely way to spend the afternoon, BigChoc, even with the last minute outfit change Grin

I had a much better day today. Spent the morning in the park with the children and a flask of coffee. Was so good to see the sun after a whole day of rain yesterday.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 21:13

That sounds a lovely day out, too Bottl
Good luck tomorrow, coffee

OP posts:
robertsmithscorpsebride · 22/10/2020 21:32

Thanks bcf for the thread and the heads up 👍 sounds like a lovely day, I love sitting outside with a red and a blanket in my local micro pub (not after today though, thanks tier 3!)

Well done to all the fasters, good stuff! Fd for me tomorrow, anyone else?

robertsmithscorpsebride · 22/10/2020 21:34

Ah missed your message.... I'm keeping you company tomorrow coffee 😁

Bottl · 22/10/2020 21:35

Me too tomorrow

Coffeeandcookies · 23/10/2020 09:56

Large glass of water and a coffee for me for breakfast, how are you both getting on Robert and Bottl?

Coffeeandcookies · 23/10/2020 10:00

Is anyone else finding that their meals and food is becoming the highlight of their day?

I don't know whether it's because I'm fasting and am enjoying my meals more, or whether it's because we are back into severe restrictions due to Covid and the other things I would normally look forward to are ruled out, but I am genuinely finding that my meals are the best part of my day at the minute. Not sure if that's a good thing or not... Confused

Bottl · 23/10/2020 10:01

I'm just about to have the same. Feeling quite hungry already but hoping a hot coffee will distract me from that.
What's on your menu today?

Bottl · 23/10/2020 10:03

X-post! I seem to be obsessed with what everyone else is eating! I think it's mostly to get some inspiration Grin

My plan today is poached egg and mushrooms for lunch and a ton of minestrone soup in the evening.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2020 11:02

Hi all

These are lovely friendly threads
However, I am quitting MN after 7 years because of unpleasant issues on another board, which are spreading

I wish all of you lovely lot the very best success in your weight loss journey 💐👍

If anyone wants me to PM them any of the links in the OP, to start the next thread, I'll be keeping my logon for a few days yet
Or of course just choose your own links or greetings

All the best
Big Choc

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 23/10/2020 11:17

@BigChocFrenzy I'm so sad you're leaving. You've been a real inspiration and fountain of knowledge. I wouldn't have lasted so long on this fasting path without you and your morale boosting threads. I dont know whats happening on other posts/threads, but if you're being bullied/attacked can you report them to MN? Please dont let some low lifes bully you off your threads. Sending you hugs BigChoc Flowers

Darker · 23/10/2020 11:23

Really sorry to hear this, BigChoc. I'm sure you have your reasons but you've been amazing and yourefforts have been hugely appreciated.

Bottl · 23/10/2020 11:44

I'm so very sorry to hear this, @BigChocFrenzy
You give so much support and offer such excellent advice.
Will be very sad if you're no longer part of these threads.
And how will we all daydream about sunny walks along the Rhine now?! Sad

Coffeeandcookies · 23/10/2020 12:14

Oh no BigChoc, please don't leave us! We really rely on your expertise and advice - I'm very new to fasting, but your kind encouragement and wise guidance has really inspired me!!

Could you possibly take a break for a little while and come back on here with a name change perhaps?

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