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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
robertsmithscorpsebride · 24/10/2020 09:57

Fantastic SV bottl Smile

I normally weigh in every week but have learnt not to bother during totm as I either sts or gain a 1lbs and it can throw me off course slightly....

Good luck weekend fasters Smile

Darker · 24/10/2020 10:34

Well done Bottl! I got on the scales this morning naked and famished and have just dipped to the next stone zone. Enjoying undoing all my good work now with a good brunch.

Coffeeandcookies · 24/10/2020 10:50

Well done Bottl and Darker, great encouragement for you both to see the weight dropping and to all of us that this programme works!

Thanks for stepping in Listening, please relay our love to BigChoc and our thanks for all the sage advice. I sincerely hope she will feel able to return to this thread at some point.

NFD for me today, planning a very small lunch as we are getting takeaway this evening, but am splitting my portion with the kids so will be able to keep the calorie count down. Any Saturday fasters?

moonlight1705 · 24/10/2020 11:48

Sorry to hear you are having to leave Bigchoc, your advice has been invaluable and sorry that another thread has turned nasty. Thanks for stepping in Listening, glad to know an original pro is on hand Grin

I'm not doing any FD this weekend but am really watching my snacks etc in the hopes of not undoing all my good work in the week. Got homemade lamb kebab and dips tonight which is lovely!!

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2020 13:39

Gosh what lovely weather it is here today !!!!

So, to mildly introduce myself
My name is often shortened to LQ by people (to save typing)

I'm in my mid 50's and live on the South coast.
I have two grown up children.
Both my DH and I started fasting after watching the programme and then a close relative dropped dead of a heart attack.
He, being a bloke, immediately and easily lost a stone!
I gradually lost a stone.
Over the years since my weight has fluctuated and at the moment I'm about 4kg over weight mostly due to lockdown drinking which BigChoc always ticked me off for

so actually it will do me good to get back into chatting to newcomers and returners.

I met a young chap in the gym the other day who aged 34 was told by the Boditrax machine that he was 46
and so was about to start 5:2 to deal with it.

5:2 is not a diet to lose weight.
Its a way of life that keeps you at a healthy weight.
I've done it since 2012 and never intend to stop.

harriethoyle · 24/10/2020 13:51

@BigChocFrenzy PLEASE don't leave is! You're my weight loss guru... and it turns out I'm going to be wearing a beautiful wedding dress in December so need your help to stay focused so I can slink down the aisle!! I do hope you stay... xx

harriethoyle · 24/10/2020 13:53

@ListeningQuietly hello!! I'm another who needs a guiding hand to keep my wine consumption acceptable so maybe we can do that together. Starting tomorrow... Grin Wine

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2020 13:57

Harriet
A December wedding is an excellent incentive to focus on 5:2.
BCF has suspended her MN account but I suspect she's lurking.

Re the Wine
My DD does 5:2 on that - as in she only allows herself alcohol on two days a week.
Its a nice way to manage it.

The really important thing is to make sure that if you do have booze, you do not allow yourself snacks with it.
When I'm being sensible I always have a large glass of water next to me so that I can separate out thirst from habit.

Beautiful3 · 24/10/2020 14:13

Never thought to introduce myself until you did, LQ.

I'm nearly 40 and living in the west Midlands, UK. I've gained 3 stone due to peri menopasual changes!! (And another half a stone due to lockdown) Lovely! I decided to give fasting a go, because nothing else worked! (Vegan diet/juicing/slimfast alongside excercising 5 times a week). I'm so glad I did. I'm back in my size 10s but possibly just have an inch to lose all over. Too scared to weigh myself, so going by my clothes and the tape measurer. I only started fasting around 5 months ago, I'm so glad I did.

Coffeeandcookies · 24/10/2020 14:33

Can I ask for advice regarding maintenance please? I have lost 3 stones, initially with calorie restriction and then a few months ago I discovered this thread and started 5:2 fasting. I am nearing what I believe is a sensible and sustainable target weight for myself and need to plan how I am going to stay at it and not allow the weight to creep back up again.

I'm relatively new to fasting, so all advice is welcome!

What I'm contemplating is continuing with fasting, but only on one day a week (6:1) at 500 calories and sticking to the guidelines of TDEE on the other 6 days and no snacking etc. I'm going to monitor my weight and if I creep up by more than 4lbs I'll revert to 5:2 until it drops again.

Does this sound realistic and appropriate? Are there other methods I should consider?

Also, for those of you who are successfully maintaining, what secrets/suggestions do you have that have helped you succeed in keeping weight off?

harriethoyle · 24/10/2020 15:47

@ListeningQuietly yes, those are excellent tips. I very rarely have snacks in the house because I LOVE THEM and could eat my body weight in crisps Grin I'm currently 4:3 in terms of alcohol and getting into a routine where Sunday is a dry day then FDs are dry and usually the one in between. The other thing I try and do is not drink when I'm alone in the house although I have found the dogs to be technically company if I really fancy a gin! Gin the last thing I'm getting more into the habit of is having spirits and a diet mixer and not wine - it's too easy to share a bottle of wine and open another!

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2020 15:53

Hi there Coffeeandcookies

The joy of 5:2 is that its really all about maintaining.
Since 2012 I've basically done 16:8 every day (ie one large and one small meal per day)
I often only have supper on a Monday as I love Sunday roasts.

Once you know what your TDEE is, then its a case of averaging out at your sedentary TDEE across the week
some days over, some days under, but over time staying just below it

many moons ago on these threads there was an excellent
annual plan for 5:2
24 weeks a year obey the rules strictly
24 weeks a year obey the rules roughly
4 weeks a year ignore them completely

and it works Smile

harriethoyle · 24/10/2020 15:54

I also like the idea of intro posts @Beautiful3!

I'm 41, lost c.10kg with 5:2 a couple of years ago (after years of yoyo-ing on weightwatchers, slimming world, hypnosis and calorie counting) and am currently c.2kg above my usual fighting weight after an all inclusive week in Cyprus (which was AMAZING). Am a comfortable size 12 and would like to be 10-12 which I guess would mean 4kg off? Or thereabouts. But it's more about how my clothes fit tbh. Aiming for sleek and shapely!

moonlight1705 · 24/10/2020 16:35

Oooh I like the annual plan as I've got so much to go that I feel it is neverending.

So intro from me, I'm 36 and also live in the West Midlands (hello beautiful3). I started out pre pregnancy at 135kg and post pregnancy lost 15kg. My DD is nearly two and since then I have only lost 4kg. However 5:2 has stopped me putting it all back on again. I'm still a size 20/22 but am nearly at the under 40 BMI. I'm stuck in a bounce range of around 2kg where I lose and put it on, have been here for 8 months. I suspect it is the snacking but I cannot seem to stop however hard I try. Next stop might be therapy for my obvious food issues Confused

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2020 16:46

Moonlight
Snacking is a really hard habit to break.
The food industry spends millions every year to try to keep you hooked.
BUT
Once you do break it
and hopefully stop your daughter ever getting it
that way a long healthy life lies.

If you can get into the habit of ONLY having solids at meal times
and only feeding her snacks like
carrot strips, slices of cheese, half a banana, a rolled slice of ham
then the processed and sugary stuff need never come into the house Smile

moonlight1705 · 24/10/2020 16:53

Thanks LQ I definitely don't want DD to have my issues with food. She gets normal snacks however I can make a snack out of anything.

I have been known to mix up a scone dough and eat it raw in one of my binges. So getting snacks out of the house doesn't work as I'll just eat toast or raw pastry or a bowl of cereal. My DH is really good and doesn't get biscuits or crisps (he has them at work) but my brain needs a rewire about my obsessions with food.

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2020 16:58

moonlight
Have you tried keeping a mood and food diary ?

Every time you want to start eating randomly, write down in a notebook the date and time and what mood you are in and what it makes you want to eat.

If nothing else that 15 minutes with pen and paper and a glass of water might make the moment pass sometimes.

And if you do still end up inhaling a jar of Biscoff you'll gain more of an understanding of your mood patterns.

can you tell I've thought about these strategies for many years Grin

robertsmithscorpsebride · 24/10/2020 18:35

listening thanks for the advice, especially the 2:5 alcohol, I find when I'm in control of my wine / gin consumption I am in control of my eating, sometimes it's so hard though and I tend to use it as a crux for any stress I'm feeling...

By way of intro, I am 46 and live in Lancashire with dh, ds and ddog. I have had weight issues all my life, and yo-yo'd terribly, I also suffered with bulimia in my 20s while at university. I am 5ft 7 and currently 13 stone, want to be around 11 st 7 as it feels okay in terms of clothes even though I know I could be smaller.... I am perimenopausal and find I'm struggling during totm, fluctuating hormones are a nightmare so any tips gratefully received. I love food, wine, baking, socialising.... not great traits for having a slim figure 😁🤔😁🤔

A mood and food diary is a good idea listening although I feel at the moment the hormonal blips are pretty regular and expected (and I still struggle with them) 😩

MadauntofA · 24/10/2020 21:47

Great idea LQ re the intros, and thank you for continuing in Bigchoc's shoes.
I'm 46, also in Lancashire, live with DH and two DDs whom I have tried not to pass on the diet rubbish which was drummed into me from a young age by a slightly obsessed (not out of keeping for the time) mother! Peri menopausal too, but embracing this WOL as it works for me. Still have about 5kg to get to my happy weight, then will plan to change to maintenance.
Having a couple of weeks off as we are all having to self isolate as DH is positive. Decided that as we are all together at home, and meals are a highlight to an otherwise boring situation, FDs aren't happening!! I also haven't shared that I am doing this WOL with DDs - tend to skip breakfast, have a miso soup for lunch then a decent dinner, so all they see is me generally eating healthily and not snacking (most of the time.)

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2020 21:53

OOH,
Just realised that @S0RCHA was joining just as Bigchoc was leaving.

S0rcha
Welcome to one of the friendliest corners of MN.
The opening post has LOADS of information in it
but all of these threads - for the past 8 years
have been a bastion of advice and support and friendship

for me, Monday is fast day so we can all chillax while the weather is pants this weekend
and then pull up our big girl pants and get back on track on Monday Smile

robertsmithscorpsebride · 24/10/2020 23:10

mad how do you find the hormonal fluctuations? Are you coping okay? Also high five to fellow Lancashire lass ✋

S0RCHA · 24/10/2020 23:25

Thank you @ListeningQuietly, I see that @BigChocFrenzy is leaving and I never got the pleasure of getting to know them. Seems to have been a great influence in here 😔
@Coffeeandcookies, my hubby was the same and lost just over 3 stone in the past year by doing the 5:2, he now does the 6:1 and is happy to be maintaining his weight. Hopefully something I’ll be able to consider doing at some point. 😆 also a lot of other good advise though like the food diary, which is something I try and do.
Introduction: hello. I’m 34, live in Central Scotland. Tried a lot of diets over the years, lost a lot and put it all back on. Found it much harder to lose after having my kids, weight doesn’t seem to move now and It’s now getting me down so bad. So here I am! Thanks for the lovely welcome. Nice to have people to talk to who are doing the same as me. 👌🏼

Bottl · 25/10/2020 00:28

Just a quick post to do my intro (don't like to feel left out Grin)...I'm 41, live in South Wales, have always been overweight. Always. Lost 2 1/2 stone doing 5:2 nearly 6 years ago, after seeing the amazing results my sister achieved on it. It was the first time in my life I'd ever lost more than a couple of lbs and the only thing I'd ever stuck to for more than a couple of days. It gave my self esteem such a huge boost and I'd love to have that again. I've regained all of the 2 1/2 st and a couple of lbs more but am the most focussed I've been for a long time so hope I can crack this again and learn how to maintain the loss.
I'm currently aiming for 4:3 until I can get a better handle on nfds. I have quite a lot to lose so trying to give myself a good kickstart. I don't actually have a target weight - I'm aiming for the next stone down and then reassess because I have no idea what a healthy weight for me is.
Monday will be my next FD

Darker · 25/10/2020 08:24

Ah - intros! I’m a Londoner in my mid-50s and reasonably active. Did 5:2 a few years ago and found it really worked for me. Weight has crept up a bit in lockdown so I’m revisiting to shift a few pounds and to re-establish some better eating habits. Also to get back into my pre-lockdown jeans. I gave up alcohol in January and am planning to stay dry for the rest of the year.

MadauntofA · 25/10/2020 08:40

Robert!! I'm not getting severe hot flushes yet, just "warmth" from time to time, and have no periods thanks to the mirena, so main problems for me are really tender breasts and awful sleep - possibly getting too warm at night, but my brain seems to want me to wake at 4-5am for no reason, no matter what time I go to bed. PMT was only ever a cry for a ridiculous reason once a month, and that seems to be lessening, my mood seems ok. I take a multivitamin for women, and have flax seed most days, so was wondering about trying some oil of evening primrose- my breasts feel on fire some days!!!
I think eating better has helped, and hoping that weight off my middle will help with hormones too. Any other tips would be gratefully received too. My friend swore by magnets in her knickers- apparently worked well, just slightly embarrassing when she realised she had been walking round work all morning with a tea spoon stuck to her trousers Grin