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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Cheeeeislifenow · 26/10/2020 11:16

Hello, I fell massively off of the wagon but I'm back. Joining in for some support if that's okay. Also looking for recipe threads if anyone has any ideas? Thank you!

Cheeeeislifenow · 26/10/2020 11:17

Ah have just seen there's links in them there welcome posts, I'll have a browse! Thank you!

harriethoyle · 26/10/2020 13:05

Disaster- those bl**dy fishcakes are 307 calories each! No feast at dinner for me!!

Bottl · 26/10/2020 13:14

@harriethoyle - oh, that's disappointing! My dsis once tried to convince me there were only 72 cals in a bagel. When I asked whether she meant the skinny ones, nope she meant the full size ones, we both realised she was waaaaay off!! SadGrin

@KylieKoKo - could you share your mushroom chilli recipe please?

@Cheeeeislifenow - welcome back! I've been falling off the wagon for years but am now on week 4 (which is 3 1/2 weeks longer than I usually last Blush ) so am hopeful that I'll actually shift some weight this time and get into a better routine

Bottl · 26/10/2020 13:16

@Coffeeandcookies - your menu sounds tasty!

KylieKoKo · 26/10/2020 13:41

How are Monday fasters doing?

I have had coffee, water and herbal tea so far. I am starting to feel quite hungry though so I will be having a miso soup with salad shortly (only 70 cals worth)

Bottl · 26/10/2020 13:56

Not too bad here. I've got a headache and had to have lunch already but hoping to finish work within the hour so might treat myself to a little nanna nap once I've finished Grin

harriethoyle · 26/10/2020 14:09

I'm ok. 170 cals of tuna sandwich and lots of water and black coffee. Should be grand to get through to 6ish for my tea. Lovely but soggy walk with the dogs at lunchtime!

ListeningQuietly · 26/10/2020 14:24

Hi all,
A bit of sunshine in the morning helps.
Lots of jumping around at the gym this morning.
Tea and a banana and a thin slice of bread and boursin for lunch.
Omelette for supper.

My favourite trick for keeping meals small is to go SPICY
as a few bites of a strong flavour resets the appetite much better than a big plate of bland.

My main target this week is to get my alcohol intake back under control.

Good luck to all those with kids on half term.

Bottl · 26/10/2020 14:39

@harriethoyle - yum, love a tuna sandwich!

@ListeningQuietly - well done for going to the gym. My local one has been closed for nearly 2 months and the pool has been inaccessible to me since March Sad However, I am doing a lot more walking every weekday so hopefully that will make up for lack of swimming.

I just have one mindee today and we've been out for a 3hr walk this morning in the sunshine so ticked off exercise and Vit d Grin

Re spicy food, I am really rubbish at eating anything with spice in it. Do you think any strong flavour would offer the same result? Like a tonne of garlic maybe?

ListeningQuietly · 26/10/2020 14:42

Bottl
Re Spicy food
I grind pepper on to loads of things.
Or a bit of raw onion chopped into the tuna mayo
If you have cheese, buy the strongest you can and have less of it.
A sprinkling of paprika on a dish lifts it
Basically anything EXCEPT sugar or salt Grin

Cheeeeislifenow · 26/10/2020 14:46

So far so good.. had my vitamin c and d and a coffee, I had no brekkie and lettuce and cucumber, tomatoes and shredded chicken with half a rasher, have a beef casserole on the go for later full of vegetables and lean beef!

KylieKoKo · 26/10/2020 14:57

I love spicy food and chili is a fast day staple for me. I always feel cold while fasting and it helps with that and the flavour helps me feel satisfied.

I'm making a spicy black bean, kidney bean abs mushroom chilli for dinner later.

cerealkillah · 26/10/2020 17:43

So far so good for me. I am famished but about to eat dinner. Whilst I'm hungry, it feels good knowing I've actually stuck to this.
My total will be 800 calories today. I'm going to try and avoid breakfast on Wednesday to keep calories even lower.
I'm also considering a third FD this week on Sunday.

ListeningQuietly · 26/10/2020 18:01

Well done Cereal
If you can manage a couple of 500 calorie days its worth it
as they kick start your system.
YYYY to skipping breakfast.
One small and one meal a day is plenty once you get down to your happy weight. The sooner you start, the more habitual it becomes.

Coffeeandcookies · 26/10/2020 18:02

Just finished dinner, am currently on 561 calories. Planning not to add to that total, but may have to have something small before bedtime if I get ravenous.

Monday seems to be a popular day for fasting, start the week off well and get one in the bag early on!! Hope the rest of you are going well 👍

moonlight1705 · 26/10/2020 19:10

You are all doing so well, I'm going to have to note down what everyone has for a FD as I need to mix up the menu.

I'm not doing a FD this week as it is half term and we have lots of nice days out. However, I have not had a snack at all today. Turns out my big trigger is being alone and bored.

Tomorrow would have been my mum's 70th birthday but she passed away two years ago. My sister and I are heading for a Greek meze for lunch as it was my mum's favourite.

ListeningQuietly · 26/10/2020 19:18

moonlight
Memory meze sounds like a good meal.
LOTS of pulses and veg and different textures and flavours.

FD foods - I'm a HUGE fan of vegetable and pulse based meals as they are filling and healthy
the other definite fall back is Shakshuka (which I could happily eat twice a week every week!)

KylieKoKo · 26/10/2020 19:32

@bottl

Sorry I missed your earlier message.

To make 2 portions of chilli at about 350 calories each:

Spray pan with olive oil spray
Add a chopped onion and as much garlic and chili as you like (I like loads)
Once the onion has softened a bit add a packet of chopped up mushroom (the one I get is 300g), a tin of kidney beans and a tin of black beans
Mix it up so it's well combined
Then add a tin of tomatoes and salt and pepper
Keep it simmering until it reaches the right consistency. It gets wetter before it gets drier as the mudrooms release water

harriethoyle · 26/10/2020 20:40

I rejected my high calorie fishcakes in a fit of pique 🤣 instead I had 3 fishfingers and a snap pot of baked beans, finishing the day on 503 calories. Will fishcake tomorrow for supper!

Coffeeandcookies · 26/10/2020 21:08

Lol harriet, am imagining you as a stroppy toddler refusing to eat them! 😂

Finished with a coffee and rice cake as was getting snacky and didn't want to spoil my day with anything more calorific, so final tally for me is 612. Going to bed soon so I won't be tempted with anything else! Can't wait until my porridge tomorrow morning!!

KylieKoKo · 26/10/2020 21:19

There are m&s crisps in my cupboard which are calling to me! Please help me resist them until tomorrow.

ListeningQuietly · 26/10/2020 21:23

Kylie
Leave them in the cupboard
and once you have eaten them tomorrow
DO NOT replace them Wink

KylieKoKo · 26/10/2020 21:29

Thanks @ListeningQuietly

My period is due in less than a week and I'm starting to crave carbs as I tend to at this time of the month. It's not really conducive to fasting!

harriethoyle · 26/10/2020 21:49

@Coffeeandcookies There was definitely a bit of huffing... I just thought God if I don't like them AND they're 307 calories I'll be FURIOUS! So I went for an old faithful and I'll give the newbies a go tomorrow...!!