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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Cheeeeislifenow · 26/10/2020 21:57

Not sure how accurate my fitness pal is but I am at 400 cals apparently. So might have an instant hot choc to round off the night and then off to bed. I too am going to go back to no breakfast. I got into a bad habit of having cereal every day and it's just empty calories.

inthethickofit19 · 26/10/2020 21:59

FD postponed until Tomorrow here.. have overate a bit today Blush back on it tomorrow, a sensible Wednesday and fast day Thursday will hopefully help...

Birthday on Friday so will enjoy Grin then a sensible weekend.

That's the plan

Coffeeandcookies · 26/10/2020 22:12

Plan your menu for tomorrow now inthethick, I always find that helps me on a FD as it takes away the decision making at meal times. It's too easy to make poor decisions when you're hungry!

Even on a NFD I add all my calories into MFP in advance so I can see if I need to tweak my meals to stay within my allowance, or to save a few calories so I can have something later in the day.

EssentialHummus · 26/10/2020 22:14

Ah, found you all! I’m continuing to lurk here, just about maintaining on 6:1 with a few 5:2 weeks mixed in when the scales start going the wrong way. Bit harder as the weather turns and huge salads lose their appeal! Very nice to read everyone’s progress.

harriethoyle · 26/10/2020 22:27

Hi @EssentialHummus! waves

I agree. I find winter fasting takes far more planning than summer. The freezer and batch cooking is your friend at this time of year! And the slow cooker...

Bottl · 27/10/2020 06:10

[quote KylieKoKo]@bottl

Sorry I missed your earlier message.

To make 2 portions of chilli at about 350 calories each:

Spray pan with olive oil spray
Add a chopped onion and as much garlic and chili as you like (I like loads)
Once the onion has softened a bit add a packet of chopped up mushroom (the one I get is 300g), a tin of kidney beans and a tin of black beans
Mix it up so it's well combined
Then add a tin of tomatoes and salt and pepper
Keep it simmering until it reaches the right consistency. It gets wetter before it gets drier as the mudrooms release water[/quote]
Perfect, thank you, @KylieKoKo

Bottl · 27/10/2020 06:17

I fell asleep at 7.45 last night which certainly helped me avoid any late night snacking Grin

Looking forward to breakfast this morning though.

Good luck Tuesday fasters

Darker · 27/10/2020 06:43

Got through yesterday on a bowl of porridge and sachets of Lemsip with honey and lemon. Not exactly how I’d planned the day.

On another topic, I’ve got a blood donation booked for Sunday. Assuming I’m well enough to attend by then, should that affect fasting on Monday?

Petronelle · 27/10/2020 07:00

Hi all, I used to be part of this thread a few years ago and found great support. A few years of illness and injuries has not only stalled any progress but has also pretty much brought me back to where I was at approx 84kg. I used to do 5:2 but might need to ease be back into it and focus on changing bad habits. I am peri meno and in my early 50s. My weaknesses are carbs and snacking. Today is the start of the change.

Cheeeeislifenow · 27/10/2020 08:05

Hi @petronelle, I am your carb twin! Very best of luck!

robertsmithscorpsebride · 27/10/2020 08:49

Bloody hell this thread has moved fast! Off yesterday and today for half term, its exhausting!

inthethick Flowers you have been through so much.

Welcome cereal and welcome back cheese and petronelle

Nfd today, fd planned for weds and fri. Good luck tues fasters...

Coffeeandcookies · 27/10/2020 09:29

I'm not a medical expert Darker but assuming you haven't had any side effects from donating blood previously I don't believe it will have any effect that you need to be concerned about. I have given blood and done a HIIT training session later the same day without any side effects, but if course listen to your body and if you feel tired or week perhaps delay your FD until later in the week.

Welcome (back?) petronelle, today is the start of a new beginning, be positive and you'll get great support here to help you.

NFD here, have just enjoyed a fab porridge breakfast, love love love my breakfast the day after a FD!

Who is fasting today? Good luck!!

Cheeeeislifenow · 27/10/2020 09:33

NFD, kicking off the day with vitamins, coffee and two boiled eggs, no bread! Best of luck fasters!

ListeningQuietly · 27/10/2020 09:35

Welcome back petronelle
The cool thing with 5:2 is that you know the principles and know it works for you
so you can ease back in and take each day at a time.

Fasting in cold weather is MUCH HARDER
but vegetable stir fries and veggie bakes and hearty soups
leave you full and warm for very few calories

  • the cheap veg : leeks, carrots, parsnips, cabbage bulked out with some pulses and then stilton cheese on top
lush
inthethickofit19 · 27/10/2020 10:12

@ListeningQuietly do you have any recipes for the cheap veg thing you just mentioned?

Sipping on green tea to keep me warm!

ListeningQuietly · 27/10/2020 10:27

Hi there inthethickofit
I need to bring myself back up to speed with the links in BigChocs opening post
but pretty sure what you need will be in there

S0RCHA · 27/10/2020 15:26

Hello all 👋🏼 Hope yous are having a good day. I’m fasting today. Pretty cold as always 🙄
Just wondering, what apps yous yous to track how long you’d have fasted for? Food tracking if anyone does it? I see MFP above but seeing if there is anything else I can try instead.

ListeningQuietly · 27/10/2020 15:53

S0RCHA
I admit I never really worried about how long a fast was.
I wombled into skipping breakfast
and was never a great one for snacking
so found myself doing 16:8 almost by default

If I'm being strict I have one meal a day supplemented by copious amounts of tea (pint cup, semi skim milk, no sugar)

But a normal day is a light lunch (sort of 350 calories) around 12:30
and a decent supper (around 1000 calories) around 7pm
and that seems to work

I'm only not a skinnymalink because of the Wine Wink

ListeningQuietly · 27/10/2020 15:56

When picking what to eat, I find links like this INCREDIBLY useful
www.wisegeek.com/what-does-200-calories-look-like.htm#

ListeningQuietly · 27/10/2020 16:00

Also, when trying to visualise what you'll look like after you get to happy weight
This site is a useful resource
height-weight-chart.com/

S0RCHA · 27/10/2020 16:16

Ah @ListeningQuietly I was the exact same you, could wake up and easily go all day with nothing to eat and realise it was dinner time. 🙈 so the fasting part is easy enough for me. I use an app called “zero” tells you time and areas you enter into whilst fasting.

Always wondered, I do the whole 24 hours with nothing other than water or black tea/coffee. But, if I were to eat, does that reset my clock or do I continue through to my 24hours are up, longs i don’t go over the 500kals? More so cause I use an app. (Hard to explain - hope you understand)
Having a look at that website - thanks

ListeningQuietly · 27/10/2020 16:22

The clock does not reset.
Think about more than 24 hour windows.
Think in terms of weeks and months and years ....
its about balancing your system

harriethoyle · 27/10/2020 17:31

I tell you, I could eat a scabby dog today Grin such a hungry day! Tomorrow is quite busy so should be easier to fast... off to dance fit at 7 then fishcakes and stir fry veg for supper afterwards. Already looking forward to it!

S0RCHA · 27/10/2020 17:39

Awesome!! Thank you @ListeningQuietly just what I thought 🤗

S0RCHA · 27/10/2020 17:40

@harriethoyle I’m the exact same just now. Dinner is cooking.... roll on 6 🥳😂