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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Coffeeandcookies · 23/10/2020 12:36

Bottl, to answer your question I've had Greek yoghurt with berries for lunch and am having chicken goujons for dinner later. Not an ideal FD meal, but it's what I'm making for the kids and I've worked out my quantities so I can eat them and not go over my calorie allowance.

How are you getting on? Robert as well? Any other Friday fasters?

Beautiful3 · 23/10/2020 12:46

Agree with @Coffeeandcookies:-
"Could you possibly take a break for a little while and come back on here with a name change perhaps."

MadauntofA · 23/10/2020 13:24

That's awful Bigchoc that it has got to the point that you want to leave MN. You have been absolutely amazing on these threads, fantastic scientific knowledge translated into easy to understand language, and so very supportive.
Unfortunately you can't change some people's behaviour, you can only manage your reaction to it, and if it has got to the point that you need to step back, then I hope you can get it out of your head soon. We would all love to see you back in the future, and in the meantime, enjoy those lovely walks down the Rhine.

Coffeeandcookies · 23/10/2020 13:28

On a very selfish note I am nearing my target weight and I'd really appreciate your input into how I can best maintain once I get there BigChoc as that has always been biggest challenge. However I fully understand if you decide you need to take time away, you need to do what is right for you FlowersFlowersFlowers

S0RCHA · 23/10/2020 13:37

Hello 👋🏼
Found you’re thread whilst searching online. Whilst I have used this forum before many years ago, I am new to this side of it.
Have IF’d since around February this year, whilst it was great to start, lock down happened (like everyone 😔) and I have since struggled to get back on the waggon. More so now where I live we are back in semi lockdown and closed my spin class I attend.
Hoping that joining yous I can find some inspiration and get my mojo back. Today is a fast day for me, usually do Tuesday and Thursday normally.

Coffeeandcookies · 23/10/2020 14:01

Welcome S0rcha, glad to have you join us! I'm fasting today as well, as are a few other regulars on this thread so there will be plenty of encouragement for you!

Beautiful3 · 23/10/2020 16:44

Hi @S0RCHA, welcome.

robertsmithscorpsebride · 23/10/2020 16:52

Nooooooooooo bcf what's happened Sad

I'll be very sad to see you leave as you are the glue that keeps this all together - I love MN (nest of vipers) but I know what you mean about some topics / threads, some comments are just awful and I hope they haven't been targeted at you Flowers

FD going okay today but I'm freeezing - it might end up being closer to 700 cals today as I just need the extra fuel [brrrrrrr]

Bottl · 23/10/2020 16:58

@Coffeeandcookies - mmm, sounds delish! @S0RCHA - welcome! I'm also fasting today. I also had a blip over lockdown and am currently on week 3 of being back on the wagon. We've been in local lockdown for about 4 or 5 weeks now (I've lost track) and are about to go into full lockdown this evening so am hoping that doesn't signal - break in my 5:2ing.
@BigChocFrenzy - I'm not sure where the problems have been but if it's anything to do with the CV section, it nearly finished me off on Tuesday. It is so unMNlike, it really messes with my head. I really hope you stay.

Bottl · 23/10/2020 17:00

@robertsmithscorpsebride - I'm feeling the cold too but have just spent the last hour in a shady playground so that won't have helped!
What's for tea?

Coffeeandcookies · 23/10/2020 17:57

Kitchen closed at 549. Am sitting with my after-dinner coffee hoping that you lot are going to hold me accountable so I don't get tempted later once I get the kids to bed!

Already looking forward to my porridge in the morning, love love love breakfast the day after a FD!

robertsmithscorpsebride · 23/10/2020 18:09

Not sure yet bottl I've just been out for a walk as dh and ds have brought chippy tea home 😩 thought I'd make myself scarce while they ate it! Brrrr to standing in playground, hope you've warmed up now! 🥶

Well done coffee I'm a big fan of painting my nails on a Friday evening, keeps me occupied and you cant do much with tacky nails Grin or a nice long bath?

S0RCHA · 23/10/2020 18:10

Thanks for your lovely welcome. 🤗 I’m also freezing today. Cold and miserable doesn’t help the fasting 😆 can finally say I have survived today 👌🏼☺️

robertsmithscorpsebride · 23/10/2020 18:51

Welcome sorcha and well done getting through today.

I ended up with a sliced turkey salad, currently in 545, might have another 50 cals, will see what happens! What did you end up having bottl

Bottl · 23/10/2020 19:06

Wow @robertsmithscorpsebride, amazing restraint...chips covered in salt and vinegar would have made me cave...instantly!!
I hope your chicken salad was a suitable substitute Grin
I have a ton of minestrone soup. It used to be my FD staple when I started a few years ago. Under 150 cals for the whole tin and because it's full of chunky veg and pasta shapes, it feels like more of a substantial meal.

Bottl · 23/10/2020 19:08

And well done, @S0RCHA
Enjoy your nfd tomorrow

Darker · 23/10/2020 19:15

That's me done for the day. Kept myself busy all day with admin chores, a long walk, supermarket etc and am now going to catch up with whatever is on iPlayer.

Well done Friday fasters!

S0RCHA · 23/10/2020 20:43

For my first Friday it wasn’t too bad. Well done to you all too. Hope yous have a great weekend whatever yous do 😁

ListeningQuietly · 23/10/2020 21:19

Thread 93
My goodness.
BigChoc has been an amazing mentor of these threads over the last five years
when I've been a lazy lardy mare and allowed myself to settle at 4 kg over weigh
BUT
She'll be back.
In the mean time, I'm in touch with her and will get back into 5:2 both for myself and you all.

I'm VERY behind on who is who but give me a week or two.

FWIW I'm actually quoted in the very first Michael Mosely book.
5;2 has benefited massively from BigChoc
and it will be here ready for her return Smile

KylieKoKo · 23/10/2020 21:47

Goodbye @BigChocFrenzy

I think I understand your decision ...

Thank you for all your advice on here. Xx

Beautiful3 · 23/10/2020 22:21

Bye BigChoc. Thanks for all your help. Hope you enjoy your rest.

inthethickofit19 · 23/10/2020 22:22

@BigChocFrenzy I am so sorry that you feel you need to step away. I want to say please don't !!! You give awesome advice and if you aren't here then I probably won't post Sad

robertsmithscorpsebride · 24/10/2020 08:15

Thanks for stepping in listening 😁

Beautiful3 · 24/10/2020 08:51

Hello and welcome @ListeningQuietly.

Bottl · 24/10/2020 09:34

Welcome back @ListeningQuietly. I recognise your name from my previous 5:2 attempts (I've had several name changes over the years though).
I hope @BigChocFrenzy is still able to read all the replies of support from us. MN has certainly changed over the 18 years I've been here and I only look at very limited (safe) topics now.

I thought my weigh day was a Monday but have just checked my notes on my phone and it's actually a Friday so have weighed today instead and am 3lbs down on last week. Next week's goal is to get into the next stone zone!!