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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
robertsmithscorpsebride · 25/10/2020 11:52

Oh dear, think I might give magnets a miss then 🤣🤣🤣
I've started taking evening primrose oil in the hope it will help, it's only been 2 weeks and I think it takes a little while to get in the system. Tender breasts are horrid, it lasts about 2.5 weeks out of every month now 😞 I was also recommended Angus castus tablets too, more for pmt symptoms.

I think a healthy diet and exercise is meant to help also....

MadauntofA · 25/10/2020 12:36

That's what I'm hoping for too on the diet and exercise front. I'll do a bit of Googling on Angus caster as well. Yes it was stuck just above the crotch - her male colleague's expression when it was explained was apparently hilarious!!

Coffeeandcookies · 25/10/2020 14:08

Afternoon all! Any Sunday fasters? NFD here for me, just enjoyed a roast chicken dinner. Planning my meals for this week, probably going to fast tomorrow and Thursday I think.

harriethoyle · 25/10/2020 15:30

Monday and Wednesday fast days for me this week and a mini on Wednesday @Coffeeandcookies. Dinner with a dear friend on Thursday to celebrate our engagement so am aiming to be positively saintly for the first half of the week!

robertsmithscorpsebride · 25/10/2020 15:39

Congratulations on your engagement harriet 💍🍾

Bottl · 25/10/2020 17:34

Is it this December you're getting married, @harriethoyle? Exciting times!!

I'm fasting Monday, Wednesday and hopefully Friday too. I'm just about to make a big pan of chilli/bolognese type sauce to portion up and put in the freezer for my FD dinners. I am going to be organised!

harriethoyle · 25/10/2020 17:38

Thanks @robertsmithscorpsebride and @Bottl . We're eloping just before Christmas! Just us, the kids and witnesses. Can't wait and EXCELLENT motivation not to go wild for the next 2 months Grin

harriethoyle · 25/10/2020 17:39

@Bottl I do chilli or bolognese over broccoli for FDs and you get a huge portion for c.350 cals

robertsmithscorpsebride · 25/10/2020 18:42

Sounds wonderful harriet 😁

Bottl · 25/10/2020 18:42

Oh my goodness!! That is so exciting!!!! You must be like a bottle of pop and yes, excellent motivation to stay on track.

I bought some cauli/broccoli rice in my last shop so going to try that tomorrow with some air-crisped mushrooms maybe, to bulk it out a bit.

harriethoyle · 25/10/2020 20:47
Grin

I think bulking fast day protein out with green veg is absolutely the way forward. A cup of broccoli is only something like 30 cals and you get LOADS...

KylieKoKo · 25/10/2020 21:17

@Bottl I'm fasting tomorrow too. I've just had a lovely roast dinner which I hope will keep me going for most of tomorrow and I have planned a serving of mushroom and bean chilli with salad, miso soup and maybe a boiled egg if I need it.

inthethickofit19 · 25/10/2020 21:28

Welcome LQ and thank you for taking over 😃

@S0RCHA whereabouts are you? I'm just outside Edinburgh.

Intro from me - I'm almost 31, have a 3 and 1 year old. My happy weight is 8.5 stone but I haven't been that since about 2012. I had major surgery for pancreatic cancer so had most of my pancreas and the full spleen removed back in 2011. I was put on some medication that made me balloon and I went up to 10 stone.

I managed to get to 9st 4bs with 5:2 just before I fell pregnant with dc2. Was 13 stone at the end of the pregnancy and 10 stone straight after. However I went up to 10st 7lbs - both dc have food allergies/ severe reflux/ multiple meds etc and the first 15 months of dc2 life I was literally holding and settling him the whole time.

I got back down to 9st4lbs with 5:2 in August but lockdown has taken its toll and I was back to 10 stone. I've restarted just last week though and 9st 9lbs today.

Determined to get back to under 9 stone this time!! Not planning anymore kids so would absolutely love to get to 8.5 stone but I'll be happy to just get to under 9stone I think. I'm only 5"2 so the most I lose is 2/3 of a lb per week. It's slow and it's hard to keep up the momentum but I do find my Fibromyalgia symptoms lessen and I feel like the inflammation in the body is lowered , maybe from giving my remaining pancreas a rest from working hard to digest

Trying to treat it as a WOL rather than a diet!

S0RCHA · 25/10/2020 21:42

Was a NFD for me today too. Had steak tonight for dinner 😋 I’ll be fasting Tuesday/ Thursday this week.
Hi @inthethickofit19 I’m just outside Stirling. So not too far from you. 😊
You sound like you’ve had loads going on so definitely treating as a WOL takes the pressure off. Slow and steady.
Sounds lovely @harriethoyle gives you something to aim for, and congrats 🍾🥂

harriethoyle · 25/10/2020 21:42

My God @inthethickofit19 - you're a medical miracle. Amazing that you got through all that. What a time you've had!

inthethickofit19 · 25/10/2020 21:55

Thanks @harriethoyle I'm often hard on my self and forget how far I've become!

inthethickofit19 · 25/10/2020 21:55

*How far I've come

Coffeeandcookies · 26/10/2020 07:54

Morning all, I know we've a few Monday fasters amongst us, myself included. Just getting my morning coffee and planning my menu, what are you all planning to eat today?

cerealkillah · 26/10/2020 08:34

Morning everyone.
I'm just starting the 5:2 today. I'm going to have two fasting days of 800 calories.
I've been following SW since May and I've just got bored of it. Having spoken to two friends who have followed the 5:2, I think it could suit me. I like the idea of two fasting days a week.
Today is a fasting day.
BF - low fat yogurt and berries
Lunch - soup
Dinner - left over roast chicken and vegetables

I hope I'm doing this right!

harriethoyle · 26/10/2020 08:36

Monday PSA - lidl have started doing thai salmon fishcakes at 128 calories each! I've picked a couple up for dinner tonight. Will report back...

cerealkillah · 26/10/2020 08:36

I should add I'm early 50s and live in London. I'd like to lose a stone at least.

harriethoyle · 26/10/2020 08:45

Morning @cerealkillah and welcome! That sounds like a good start but you might find your weight loss happens more quickly the nearer you are to 500 calories per day. If you are doing consecutive fast days or back to backs, you can have 1300 calories over the two days, either as 650 each day or 500 and 800 or whatever suits you.

I find that skipping breakfast on a FD helps me and I really need to keep hydrated! You'll find what suits you after a couple of weeks. Good luck!

Bottl · 26/10/2020 09:31

Hello @cerealkillah. There is loads of information and tips on these threads. It's great to have the support of fellow 5:2ers.

FD for me too. I've had two glasses of water so far. Planning poached egg and mushrooms for lunch and bolognese and cauli/broc rice for dinner.

Hope everyone has a good day Smile

cerealkillah · 26/10/2020 09:57

Thanks for the welcome @harriethoyle @Bottl. I'm really looking forward to doing this. Luckily I drink a lot of water in the day, so that will help. What does everyone use for tracking calories? MFP?
I will go back and read the thread properly later too to get all the tips.

Coffeeandcookies · 26/10/2020 10:44

Hi and welcome cereal, lovely to have you joining us. I use MFP for counting my calories, but there are lots of other apps if you prefer something different.

Menu today is scrambled egg with tomato and mushroom for lunch, them I'm making spaghetti and meatballs for dinner this eve, but I love the tomato sauce and just have mine without any meatballs and only a small helping of spaghetti to hit my calorie target. Am currently making pancakes for the kids lunch though, the smell of freshly baked pancakes is driving me insane!! 🤪