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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
ladybranstonpickle · 04/01/2021 20:00

kitchen closed on 800.

now to watch boris :(

Fillybuster · 04/01/2021 22:14

I didn’t fail but today wasn’t the FD I had in mind. Feeling slightly ropey this evening so didn’t even fit in my usual Les mills session. Trying again tomorrow, suspect it may take me a few attempts to get back in the bus .....well done to all the successful fasters!

Fillybuster · 04/01/2021 22:16

Oops - forgot to say thank for the welcome (back) @ListeningQuietly. Please send my love to BCF next time you are in touch Flowers

KylieKoKo · 04/01/2021 22:27

Effortlessly slim "D"P is eating cheese and crackers and a packet of crisps Angry

CoffeeRequiredNow · 04/01/2021 22:45

Lol Kylie, it's sickening isn't it! My DH had a lovely supper of biscuits, cheese and crackers whilst I sat drinking my large glass of water. Stayed firm though, going to bed now before I slip!

KylieKoKo · 04/01/2021 23:19

He's on the quality streets now ...

moonlight1705 · 05/01/2021 08:33

Did you make it through the quality street kylie?

Today is my first FD and have planned a green bean and lentil salad for lunch then baked salmon with steamed veg for tea. Just going to ignore the Christmas sugar cravings as much as I can today.

ListeningQuietly · 05/01/2021 10:25

Kylie
Once they are gone, they are gone. Wink

Filly
Thank you. I will

ListeningQuietly · 05/01/2021 10:25

I have to say I'd forgotten how nice it feels to wake up after a fast day feeling lighter and emptier.

Shame we are stuck at home but Yoga is done ....

KylieKoKo · 05/01/2021 11:53

@moonlight1705 I stayed strong. And had some lovely smoked salmon and scrambled eggs for breakfast this morning.

@ListeningQuietly so what you are saying is that it is my duty to finish the quality streets tonight? So that they are gone?

We also have some of those Lindt chocolate balls left ...

ListeningQuietly · 05/01/2021 12:25

Kylie
so what you are saying is that it is my duty to finish the quality streets tonight? So that they are gone?
Nah, make your DH eat them till he turns green Wink

Beautiful3 · 05/01/2021 14:36

Anyone know how @BigChocFrenzy is doing?

ListeningQuietly · 05/01/2021 15:07

Beautiful
She emailed me the other day. She's OK. Bored of lockdowns and missing her gym but pottering along Smile

MazDazzle · 05/01/2021 18:10

Happy New Year everyone!

First FD of 2021 complete! Black coffee and water til dinner time, then veg Thai curry.

I’ve put on a shameful 12lb in just over 2 weeks. Outrageous! Blush However, my totm is also due, so I’m hoping that explains some of it. I drank far too much wine and my sugar intake was through the roof though, so it’s well deserved.

harriethoyle · 05/01/2021 18:35

Kitchen closing on 805 calories. I had a snaccident with some quavers Blush but aiming for minis tomorrow and Thursday and dry until Friday night so hopefully it'll come off as quickly as it went on! 2.1kg off overnight which was CLEARLY just bloat but made me feel happier 😂

inthethickofit19 · 05/01/2021 19:48

Happy new year to you too @MazDazzle wow 12lbs, a lot of that will be retained water and bloat ..

So like @Fillybuster my FD didn't quite work out yesterday. I was doing so well until DH ordered a takeout at 9pm. The lockdown announcements just felt a bit rough. Anyways I had a Turkish serbini (a very thin wrap with mincemeat and chicken on it) plus my 500 cals earlier. I'm hoping I wouldn't have gone over my 1550 TDEE what do you all think?

FD today and I'm seriously flagging but I've brushed my teeth and already in bed. I refuse to delay it anymore as I want to enjoy my food tomorrow!

moonlight1705 · 05/01/2021 19:52

Kitchen closed on 571 as I decided to put a bit more veg into my dinner.

Feeling really pleased with my day today. Smile

Beautiful3 · 05/01/2021 23:23

Thanks @ListeningQuietly that's good to know. I miss her on here.

inthethickofit19 · 06/01/2021 07:47

I succeeded with FD yesterday Grin

Onto NFD today and then FD tomorrow. I do well with Monday and Thursday FD's.

CoffeeRequiredNow · 06/01/2021 08:24

Good morning everyone, who is fasting today? I am, getting my coffee now, planning scrambled eggs with a tomato for lunch then having homemade spaghetti and meatballs for dinner. On a FD I have a third of my normal portion of spaghetti and don't take any meatballs, just the lovely tomato and veg sauce, can have quite a lot of it as it's so low in calories. Suspect I'll need quite a bit of coffee to sustain me through home-schooling 4 kids all day though...

cerealkillah · 06/01/2021 08:42

Morning all. Second FD of the week for me today. Monday I finished on 640 calories, which I was happy with. Today I'm aiming for around 500.
I'm going to try really hard not to snack on NFD. I'm also doing dry January which will hopefully make a big difference.
I've been working out the extra calories I have whenever I drink and then snack. It's horrific isn't it?

cerealkillah · 06/01/2021 08:42

Good luck to everyone fasting today.

KateMAB · 06/01/2021 08:56

Hi everyone, yesterday was a FD, came in at 529, feeling very stressed as I don't know what is happening about working over lockdown and have 5 children trying to work online.

ladybranstonpickle · 06/01/2021 09:44

Hi fasters!
I'm on my second fast of the week. This is my first week so easing in on 800 calories I think. Had a skinny latte so far this morning, planning soup for lunch, then fish and steamed cabbage for dinner tonight.

Did a 30min brisk walk this am after dropping baby at nursery - it's her third settling in day and we did drop-and-go for the first time! I don't know what to do with myself, don't go back to work until Tuesday!

cerealkiller I'm not doing Dry January (not a big drinker anyway) but I am doing Yoga with Adriene's 30 Day Journey, so similar discipline required!

Good luck everyone fasting (and home schooling!) today.

MazDazzle · 06/01/2021 10:36

3lbs down after yesterday’s FD. Takes me to 9lb festive gain. Going to try for a b2b today to shift some more.

Hardly slept a wink last night. I was still up at 5am!

Homeschooling is grim Coffee. My three start next week. Not looking forward to it. It’s the technology side of it that I find draining. There are so many notifications it’s so easy to miss something.

Good luck to everyone fasting today. I’ll pop on later to see how you’re getting on and to keep me on the straight and narrow!