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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴

Grin Everyone welcome to 5:2 thread # 91 ! Grin
We’re a very friendly bunch; come join us

FAQs & tips in the OP

🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴

OP posts:
DownCherryTreeLane · 12/06/2020 22:48

Second FD of the week done today. I found this FD quite difficult as I am really hungry, already counting down the hours until tomorrow's breakfast Grin

NathanNathan · 12/06/2020 22:54

Thanks BigChoc

Upsidedownrightnow · 12/06/2020 23:36

marking my spot Smile

emcla · 12/06/2020 23:48

Thanks bigchoc. Great thread title.

Up. I honestly don’t know how long as I’ve been on and off doing 5 2. My bmi has always been in the healthy range. I was an underweight child and always looked pale and ill. I find now in mid 40’s that the weight goes on easily and is hard to loose. I don’t drink alcohol and am always active. I’m not one for watching tv. I prefer to go for a walk. I was just over 9.5 st starting here this time but I have been here before. This time I am determined to keep the weight off. Ideally I would like to be 8.5 st.

Beautiful3 · 13/06/2020 09:09

Looking forward to breakfast now!!! Might even have porridge!

BigChocFrenzy · 13/06/2020 09:16

I'm having my usual Saturday miniFD for maintenance
Any other fasters ?

I've had a Rhine walk and this afternoon will lift a few weights at the gym before spin class

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 13/06/2020 09:17

I'll start with a positive, I have lost 0.5kg this week and am now the lightest I have been in 5 years.

I have a pair of size 22 jeans which I do not have to unbutton or unzip to get on and needs a belt. Sadly they are quite stretchy but I am definitely a size 20 bottom now rather than hovering between sizes.

oxrocker · 13/06/2020 09:30

What foods do you break your fast with?

I've just completed my first 24hr fast, I had a cheese and bacon omelette (quite a big one) and a couple of digestive biscuits to break the fast and I had diarrhea during the night.

Recommendations?

Syncope · 13/06/2020 10:04

Thanks for the new thread BCF.

moonlight1705 congratulations on your SV and your NSV! Lightest you've been in 5 years is amazing.

Well done to everyone on FDs over the last couple of days and good luck to everyone fasting today.

I weighed myself yesterday - 2.6 pounds lost, so just over half a stone since starting 5:2. Really pleased with that.

What is everyone up to this weekend?

Waspie · 13/06/2020 10:11

Well done Friday fasters Brew

That's awesome moonlight; I hope you are very proud of yourself. You deserve to be Flowers

Thanks for answering my tea question BCF. I am relieved it's okay to drink tea between meals!

I tend to have a slice of wholemeal toast, or a wholemeal bagel, for breakfast after a fast day ox. If I'm very hungry I have peanut butter on it. I find anything too carby or heavy makes me feel really bloated and unpleasant; although I have the opposite issue to you in that I'm generally constipated.

Good luck with your mini today BCF and enjoy your exercise. Anyone else fasting? Good luck if you are.

I'm NFD today. Playing tennis with DS against his friend and his mum later. Should be fun - fingers crossed the weather holds.

Waspie · 13/06/2020 10:13

Well done Syncope ; that's a great SV!

EssentialHummus · 13/06/2020 12:36

Hi all, just checking in on the new thread. I’m still here, lurking quietly. Still not fasting but doing my best to eat in a healthy, regular way.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/06/2020 13:57

< waves to Hummus >

Congratulations on your SV & jeans NSV, Moonlight

and your SV too, Syncope Good progress

Oxrocker I'm unclear about the 24 hours fast and the diarrhea during the night

  • What is your fasting system?

On 5:2, you have your last meal on the NFD,
then on the FD 500 or 800 calories in 1 - 3 meals
On the NFD, break your fast with a reasonably healthy meal, not too big, not junky

On FDs, Mosely says no junk or alcohol, so no biscuits allowed

If you have 800 cal FDs, I recommend against having all your calories in 1 meal, as it may be too much for your stomach and also may delay the overnight fast
For 500 cal FDs, one meal is fine

OP posts:
DownCherryTreeLane · 13/06/2020 15:25

Weigh day today and I have lost another 3lbs which I am really happy about. :) I have now lost 13lbs which means next week hopefully I will hit the 1 stone of weight loss mark.

DownCherryTreeLane · 13/06/2020 15:27

Congrats @moonlight1705 and @Syncope for your SV!

@oxrocker I usually break my fasts which a sandwich on wholemeal bread with a side salad (I'm not a breakfast person even on NFD).

oxrocker · 13/06/2020 16:46

Think I'll try the wholemeal sandwich idea.
Thanks for the advice.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/06/2020 17:30

Congratulations on your SV, Cherry
Next stop, your milestone !

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 13/06/2020 19:27

Thanks for the new thread BCF!

Some great Sv and NSV I see!

I'm gutted because I never lost any weight after my second FD this week - I'm constipated tmi so I know that's probably contributing. Don't usually suffer from constipation but always tend to get it when I restart 5:2. I've taken an aloe Vera capsule tonight to hopefully help get moving.

Secondly, I've had two ravenous days and had 4 mini meals yesterday and today. I usually have 2-3. Think I've only been slightly over tdee...

Planning to bring my next fast forward to tomorrow instead of Monday as we've planned date night.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/06/2020 21:36

Keep drinking water, inthethick - it may help

OP posts:
Scruffyoak · 14/06/2020 07:14

Rejoining you all. I initially lost 1.5stone in 2mths
..
I'm now +6lbs again since lockdown started. Really need to stop binging food and start moving again!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2020 08:53

Welcome back, Scruffy
You did really well before, so if you can focus, you'll soon get back on track

Most important tip: no snacking between meals

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 14/06/2020 09:24

Why has MM changed to 800cals on his website - used to be 500 for women. Is it more sustainable, but slower in terms of effects?

BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2020 14:17

Change is simply that it's easier and hence more accessible for more people

Also, those with pre-T2 / T2 often struggle with 500, but on 800 they can have 3 small meals (as on BSD / Fast800)

800 cals works for men and for women with high (> 2400 TDEE)
However, for most women it is slower
which is fine if it is sustainable and they are not in a hurry
e.g. women on TDEE 1600 would only lose about ½ lb per week - and that's if they avoid eating back the FD deficit on the NFDs

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 14/06/2020 15:20

Thanks Bigchoc. Trying to decide whether 5:2 or 16:8 is the way forward- done both in the past, have about 10kg to lose. Will probably start with 5:2 to get going