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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
BigChocFrenzy · 05/08/2020 20:02

Congratulations on your SV, Coffee
Excellent progress

Well done on an enjoyable FD outdoors, Beaut

That's good planning, SHoot

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 05/08/2020 23:28

I haven’t made minestrone soup in years onequestion. It sounds delicious! Everything always sounds so tempting on a FD. Smile

Had a great FD today and smashed my online PT session! I’ve made definite progress in kettlebells and body weight exercises since lockdown began. It’ll be interesting when I eventually get back into the gym (I’m in Scotland), as I haven’t been able to do any heavy lifting in over 4 months.

Returned from holiday on Monday. Had hoped to fast then, but felt ill so postponed it.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 00:38

Well done on your FD and training, maz
That's great you are able to progress even without a gym

Have gyms opened in Scotland yet ?

I've been gym ratting 🏋🏼‍♂️ here since 16 May - I was sooooo glad to get back !

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 06/08/2020 07:40

Welcome Flour, Shoot and Hummus,
Some great FDs happening and SVs!
Mini FD today, and will do on Saturday as well - usually do a FD today, but today's schedule looks a bit daunting, and won't be able to have my main meal until 9, so thought I'd try the 2 minis for this week along with my FD on Monday.
Did anyone watch the MM programme last night? I missed it, but will watch at the weekend- was he promoting his Fast800?

EssentialHummus · 06/08/2020 07:47

Thank you very much for the welcome mad but I have been here for three years! A prompt to post more frequently, I suppose Smile.

MadauntofA · 06/08/2020 07:50

Sorry hummusBlush
I'm relatively new, along with shocking memory, so don't recognise all the names yet!

1questionshootout · 06/08/2020 08:07

The MM programme was 800 calories but low carb to put the body into ketosis. Some of the people were given protein shakes, which I don't like.

I have the Fast 800 recipe book, though I do have problems with some of the instructions. Also I dont eat meat, but I do eat fish and eggs, so those are my stand bys.

MadauntofA · 06/08/2020 08:22

I'm with you on the protein shakes as a food replacement Shoot - I'm sure protein powder has its place for those heavily into sports/ weights, but real food as far as possible for me!
I wonder whether it will encourage a lot of people into doing something about their weight on the back of the risk of obesity in Covid.

moonlight1705 · 06/08/2020 08:55

Morning all, I am also off to the Malvern Hills today for a nice walk Beautiful we only live 20 minutes drive away so it's quite handy.

I'm off this week so DH and I have done lots of lovely things as it was our anniversary. We went out on Tuesday to Cheltenham and I managed to have a FD of somewhere between 600 and 700 calories. I had a soup and bread so cannot give you an exact amount.

Had a massive tapas for lunch yesterday at the gorgeous place in town so need today's FD to go well. Smile

Beautiful3 · 06/08/2020 10:24

Have a lovely walk today @moonlight1705. It's so beautiful there. It took us an hour to get there. Wish we lived closer as it's a good walk. Happy anniversary Flowers

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 12:00

Happy anniversary week, Moonlight 💐
You did really well to manage an FD !

Enjoy your walk - Malvern Hills sounds gorgeous

Good luck, MadAunt and any other Thursday fasters

Mosely's Fast800 depends on low carb, not just daily 800 calories
So absolutely zero added sugar / starchy carb junk

His tweaked lc - "low carb Mediteranean" - encourages beans, peas & lentils to help control blood sugar
and also unflavoured Greek yoghurt
He discourages sweeteners

The Fast800 is only a short term measure, based on Prof Taylor's Newcastle Uni Hospital protocol for reversing T2

  • you may remember we had him on an MN Webchat a while ago Taylor's protocol has won him awards and has now been rolled out to a large scale test of 5,000 people on the NHS

They found some people do better on that system using prepared sachets of replacement meals e.g. Exante or Optifast shakes, soups etc which are specially designed to contain the required protein, vitmains & minerals
As they reach goal, people gradually transition to 1 "proper" meal, then 2 etc

I didn't see the program (not available in Germany !) but I wonder if those protein shakes were actually the meal replacement shakes

These meal replacements are also useful on FDs, for those who either want to save prep time on FDs
or who struggle with finding what will give nutrition for 500 / 800 cals

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:24

🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴

🙂 We have a new Thread #92 ! 🙂

🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴

OP posts:
missfliss · 09/08/2020 08:17

Feeling pretty toxic after a few days indulgence and eating not that enjoyable crap at legoland !

Fasting today - planning not to eat at all today and then normal 500 calorie fasts on tues thurs and Sunday again.

Anyone else fasting today?

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