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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
MadauntofA · 03/08/2020 20:40

I tend to add 1tsp chia seeds, 1/2 of flax seeds and some frozen fruit - very tasty, and the only breakfast other than poached egg on toast to keep me full for hours

Beautiful3 · 03/08/2020 20:48

Well done Monday fasters. Kitchen closed at 587 today.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/08/2020 21:30

Well done on your FD, beaut

I add a tbsp flaxmeal sometimes, not flaxseeds, because the meal "dissolves" well

OP posts:
annabell22 · 04/08/2020 06:13

Well done on your NSV @MadauntofA I'm glad they stayed up!

I set myself a nice-if-it-happens, not-going-to-be-a-drama-if-not target of losing 1.5kg last month. It didn't quite happen, but I managed it this morning so only four days behind schedule! Now 100g away from matching my lowest last year and also that will be a stone lost since December (which means I gained a stone between July and Dec 2019 Shock Blush )

donnatellme · 04/08/2020 07:52

Hi all, FD yesterday which I found a bit tedious. Not hungry as such, just a feeling of boredom. Not sure why. I've got 2nd FD tomorrow and I'm already dreading it a tad.

MadauntofA · 04/08/2020 08:05

That's a good pace annabel, similar to mine. Not massively fast but enough to keep me motivated and see this as a long term project. I think for me, fast weight loss leads to boredom and fast gain. I'd rather a WOL with sustainable health benefits after the needed loss, and this feels like it.
Donna, I'm only a few weeks in, but getting used to it, and only having to do it 2/7, I try and keep busy on those days to counteract the boredom. Have you been doing this a while or new to it - sorry, I don't recognise all the names in the thread yet!

donnatellme · 04/08/2020 08:11

MadauntofA

Haha, well - on and off for 7 years, so I should be a pro by now Grin

I generally like the feeling of a FD and the morning after, I'm buzzing with energy. I guess some weeks outside factors just affect moods etc. I am struggling with some new rules related to the pandemic and my previous coping strategy to stress is to eat... I'm wondering if it's related somehow. Just don't want it to become a problem to the point where I give up again ...

MadauntofA · 04/08/2020 08:48

I get the buzz the following morning too Donna! I previously had a stab at this a few years ago, lost some weight but had lots going on in my life at the time, so turned to carbs Grin
In one way, the slower pace of Covid life is lovely, but in others, I can't stand it - I need some end in sight! If my DDs were back in school, I think it would make all the difference. I'm also really missing hugging people outside my family. I'm quite introverted but have a few v close friends. Which rules are you struggling with?

donnatellme · 04/08/2020 08:54

MadauntofA

Love the buzz! haha. Yeah, there have been some positives about the pandemic, but I was missing the social connections and getting back to normal a bit. Where i live (not in the UK at the moment), the rules suddenly got a lot stricter with mask wearing etc and I just feel a bit hopeless about it all. I'm single and living alone so my moods ebb and flow let's say! Also quite introverted, so in some ways I like it, but it's gone on a long time now!

robertsmithscorpsebride · 04/08/2020 10:35

morning everyone

I have been on annual leave with DS for the last 2 weeks and not had a moment to myself! Managed only 1 fd per week and haven't weighed as I can't face the scales :( Back in work until tues then we are off camping for 4 days so I'm on a fd today and friday, but not holding out much hope for any weight loss in august Shock

Hope others are doing much much better than me, why is it so hard to fast with kids in tow? Will check back in later, not had anything yet except tea, salad for lunch but no clue yet re: dinner as DH needs to go food shopping, maybe soup or omelette

good luck to my fellow fasters Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 04/08/2020 12:29

Congratulations on your SV and minigoal, Annabell
Good steady progress

Donna If you are struggling to fast with the stricter SD where you are, then I suggest you give yourself a break and move FD2 from tomorrow to later in the week
Also, move to 800 FDs for a while, if you aren't already on them, for a more gradual approach

Welcome back, Robert
Don't worry, most people stop fasting on holiday - which is good, as you should relax
I only advise people to keep to the 2 healthy habits of "No snacking" and "NHS alcohol limits"

Holiday regain is usually very quick to lose again, if tackled immediately
Some of it may be retained water due to excess carbs, undigested food etc, so a decent chunk usually goes after the first FD back

MadAunt It sounds like you've adapted well to this WOE, so it should be sustainable for you.
Only a few weeks until the DC are all hopefully back at school

OP posts:
Ineedflour · 04/08/2020 15:02

Hi, may I join in?

I'm a week into the Fast 800 and planning to do 8 weeks of that. I'm a week in and have lost 7lbs. Bless that first week water-weight loss! I'm eating once a day as I find it much easier to have 1 'big' meal. It's all fine, but I did dream I was eating a doughnut last night!

BigChocFrenzy · 04/08/2020 15:43

Welcome, flour 🙂

That's a good first week even on Fast800
Do keep drinking water all day - it may sound counter-intuitive, but it helps stop your body retaining it again

Mosely suggests 2-3 meals for blood sugar control, so you may find later that works better for you.
Also, with just 1 meal, 800 cals seems about the limit to avoid the issues associated with regular OMD (nearer TDEE) as a WOE

OP posts:
Ineedflour · 04/08/2020 15:47

Thank you BigChoc. I will certainly consider 2 meals further down the line. 🙂

Beautiful3 · 04/08/2020 19:33

Hi everyone. Welcome flour. Hope you're enjoying your holiday Robert. My kitchens closed at 618. We made pizza for dinner so it pushed me over! Never mind!

robertsmithscorpsebride · 04/08/2020 20:04

Welcome flour

Thanks bigchoc, unfortunately there was snacking and an excess of nhs alcohol limits Blush
Fd finished on 497 (exactly) Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 04/08/2020 21:40

Well done on your first FD back, Robert

Well done too, beaut That's fine

OP posts:
1questionshootout · 05/08/2020 06:19

Another one sneaking back in (just in time before a new thread, I see)

I've 2 stone to lose, so this is going to take a while. But having done 5-2 before in the past I have a fair idea of what to eat on fast days.

I can get by with no breakfast, just a Bovril when I get to work.
Mon was prawn and egg for lunch, and then puttanesca sauce with shredded cabbage for dinner.

It will be interestiing to see what MM comes up with on tonight's programme about losing those lockdown pounds.

EssentialHummus · 05/08/2020 06:40

Just checking in to report a FD yesterday as I noticed my scales heading the wrong way - coffee for breakfast, roast chicken breast with pak choi and broccoli for lunch, more coffee for "dinner" and I kept myself very busy through the evening. Normally these days I'm in a bit of a 16:8 pattern but after weeks of birthdays etc I needed it.

donnatellme · 05/08/2020 09:00

Thanks for the advice BigChoc. I'm going for another FD - feel more confident and upbeat today. Planned a new recipe for FD tonight which I'm looking forward to! Think I just need to shake it up a bit.
Good luck fellow fasters!

annabell22 · 05/08/2020 11:01

Morning all

FD for me today. I don't normally do Wednesdays but there hasn't been one so far this week! Who's joining me?

BigChocFrenzy · 05/08/2020 12:03

Welcome back, Shoot, Hummus

Good luck, Annabell, Donna and any other Wednesday fasters

Wednesday is my hardest training day, with the toughest most evil trainer for spin & advanced lifting classes this evening
The gym will - finally - have air con by EOM; until then, in summer it's like a sauna

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 05/08/2020 17:00

Kitchen closed at 593. We went to the lovely malvern hills walking today. I'd normally fast until dinner but had a picnic with the children! So had a sandwhich & fruit for lunch and soup for dinner!

Coffeeandcookies · 05/08/2020 18:32

Weighed myself today and have lost 1.5 stones, delighted with that progress! First target weight is another 9lb off, but am two-thirds of the way to reaching that.

Planning my FD for tomorrow, no breakfast, tuna and tomato omelette for lunch and slow cooker beef stew for dinner. Well done to everyone who had a FD today!!

1questionshootout · 05/08/2020 19:47

I’m away on hols next week, so I’m using up what’s in my fridge, while planning for a FD tomorrow!

Minestrone soup tonight- I removed some of it just containing veg ( onion, red pepper, cabbage, passata)before adding chickpeas and pasta, so that’ll be my lunch tomorrow. The more calorific version will be tonight’s supper, plus freezer standby.