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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
harriethoyle · 16/06/2020 17:42

Skidding in to the new thread late in the day to say I'm on day 1 of a b2b! Chilli and salad for tea. Off to catch up on the previous 4 pp of thread!

Trevsadick · 16/06/2020 18:29

I think you are right. At some point, I will get sick of drinking water and end up not drinking enough. So a touch of squash would be better. Then work towards ice and a slice.

So just started my 3rd fast.

I had an omelette with veg and some ham for lunch.

And mackerl in tomato sauce, with cheese (hot) and salad.

I also had a coffee with a touch of cream earlier.

I need to come up with quicker lunches. Trying to fit in a walk and cooking something, makes it a rush.

But all in all I am finding this OK, no headaches yet, wasn't even that hungry today. I was peckish around 10.30am but it passed quick and I broke fast an hour later than planned as I didn't feel hungry then.

moonlight1705 · 16/06/2020 20:01

Ended up on 604 today and am off to get a green tea for the evening.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/06/2020 20:14

Good luck in your b2b, harriet

Well done on your FD, Moonlight

trev Maybe at the WE cook and freeze a few portions of stew etc that you only need nuke on the FD ?

inthethick I'd keep Sunday as an NFD, to start next Monday with your usual FD plan

FDs this week:
if you like Thursday FD, add Saturday to that ?
Or Wednesday and Friday ?

OP posts:
Quackersandcheese3 · 16/06/2020 20:41

I’ve just started this plan today. I’m feeling very optimistic and positive about this lifestyle change.

harriethoyle · 16/06/2020 20:51

Kitchen has closed on 568.

Which means I can use my additional b2b calories tomorrow and have spaghetti!

robertsmithscorpsebride · 16/06/2020 21:16

Welcome quackers and good luck!

Successful fd done on 507cals 😁 feeling a little hungry but I'll survive. Well done harriet moon and all the other fasters.

inthethickofit19 · 16/06/2020 22:03

BCF I'm clearly got my head in the clouds. We had date night last night so I fasted on Sunday instead.

I think I'll fast tomorrow and then do next FD on Monday to get back to my usual Monday Thursday

Thanks!

emcla · 16/06/2020 22:10

I ended up doing a mini today. No both me and dh have slightly dodgy tums. Maybe it’s all the hassle we’ve had recently.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/06/2020 22:42

Welcome quackers 🙂
You sound very positive
Did you start with an FD ?

Well done, Harriet
Enjoy your Wednesday spag !

Well done too, Robert

A miniFD is a good achievement, emcla and may have given your stomach a rest
Do avoid full FDs until things are back to normal, even if it's just stress affecting you both.
I hope you and your OH feel better v soon

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 16/06/2020 23:04

Well done to all those who fasted today. My turn tomorrow! I measured myself tonight and I've lost an inch off my bust, waist and hips in one week! Which is amazing!

BigChocFrenzy · 16/06/2020 23:26

Congratulations on your inches NSV, Beaut
That's burned off bodyfat

OP posts:
emcla · 16/06/2020 23:28

Great results on here. Well done beautiful and good luck tomorrow.

Thanks bigchoc

Beautiful3 · 16/06/2020 23:45

Thanks BigChocFrenzy and emcla!

MadauntofA · 17/06/2020 06:46

Great results Beautiful- I can't wait to see my inches disappear!!
2nd FD today.
Any ideas for easy 100-150 portions of protein (not dairy or ham) to add to salad - so far thought of boiled egg/ sliced chicken/ v small tin of tuna. What else could I use?

NathanNathan · 17/06/2020 07:45

@MadauntofA I've recently started having two slices of nice beef, just the packet stuff but the slightly more expensive range, usually around 70 cals.

I've done a few weeks of 5:2 now and I have to say I find the 500 cal days very hard. I think during BSD I've trained myself very well to 800 cal days, is there any problem with doing ADF 800 days instead of two 500s?

agteacht · 17/06/2020 08:07

Hey @NathanNathan! had the same problem with my FD yesterday, thinking of doing three miniFD instead as want to stay pretty low carb too... interested in views!

MadauntofA · 17/06/2020 08:54

Beef slices sound good!
I'm no expert but with 3x800 the calorie deficit is similar to 2x500 so May have a similar effect. Bigchoc will put us all straight though!

Beautiful3 · 17/06/2020 09:12

Thanks MadauntofA. I normally have the same as you do. A beef slice/seasoned chicken breast/tuna or boiled egg with my salad. Would love salmon, but it's very expensive!

NathanNathan · 17/06/2020 09:27

Hey @agteacht Smile

Let's see what BigChoc says, Moseley does say you can do two days of 800 but you'll lose slower, but it makes sense that 3 days of 800 could also work.

Quackersandcheese3 · 17/06/2020 10:08

@BigChocFrenzy started on Monday so fast day was Tuesday. I had 486 calories.
Wasn’t intending on counting cals on non fast days but I think it would be beneficial in getting a bigger picture of my eating habits.
Going to re watch the Moseley docu on I player to get some more info too.

DietChic · 17/06/2020 10:10

Fasting today - I overate yesterday which is annoying. About 400 over TDEE when I added it all up so I may chuck in a Mini tomorrow to try and even it out.

Monday night I was SO hungry I thought I wouldn’t be able to sleep - but yesterday I was uncomfortably full. On balance, the hunger is the better of the two and easily mended. Once you’re too full, there’s nothing but waiting to fix that!

spatchcock · 17/06/2020 10:14

Well done @Beautiful3 - all those inches melting away must feel amazing! I really need to start measuring myself, I just can't find the tape measure... will dig it out tomorrow.

And good job on the first FD, @robertsmithscorpsebride.

I'm doing okay except for a couple of bad headaches. Really unpleasant and I suspect sugar withdrawal is behind them.

Fasting tomorrow and looking forward to it!

Good luck all you Wednesday fasters.

harriethoyle · 17/06/2020 10:18

@Beautiful3 Well done! That's brilliant.

Feeling ok this morning but I confess, doing the food shop on a FD is challenging... even the uncooked arborio rice looks tempting! Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 17/06/2020 10:29

Well done on an excellent 1st FD, Quackers

MadAunt V useful on an FD are prawns / shrimps - v low cal and just add lemon & chilli for dressing
Also smoked salmon with salad

agteacht, Nathan For those who struggle with the v low FD calories, I recommend a system of 3 miniFDs,
e.g. Mon+Wed+Fri (or whatever suits) on 800-1000 cals with same food rules as FDs,
i.e. no alcohol or junky treats

This allows 3 small meals or 2 medium ones
and gives about the same rate of loss as standard 5:2

It's not from Mosely, but it's a variant I suggested initially for a few people and we've found it works well, so 2 miniFDs is now part of the standard thread toolkit

OP posts: