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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
BigChocFrenzy · 18/06/2020 10:00

Welcome, Vgtasd and annabell 🙂

Good luck on your 1st FD, Vg
To zap bellyfat more quickly, cut right back on alcohol and sweet treats on NFDs, because sugar & booze store calories preferentially there

Well done on your first 2 FDs, Annabell
I've started 5:2 for the health benefits and hve now been maintaining for several years
The OP has many peer-reviewed science papers on the health benefits, in the end section "Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health"

OP posts:
emcla · 18/06/2020 10:45

Hi annabel. Virtual hand hold ! Good luck with 5 2.

Good luck to all fasters today. You can nail this!

BigChocFrenzy · 18/06/2020 12:39

Hi, emcla Smile
How are you doing today ?

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 18/06/2020 13:28

Thanks BigChocFrenzy. Nice to know we all have our vices! I wish I could stop buying nutella, but the children ask for it sometimes. Fast day tomorrow, I've got a small thin steak with salad lined up! Yummy!

moonlight1705 · 18/06/2020 14:46

Sounds like you are all doing so well, the weather really affects how I eat so I binge in colder weather and eat light in the sunshine.

Good and bad over the last two days. It has been two non FDs for me but I've really not been watching it and have slipped into some bad habits again so I fully expect to have put on this week when I weigh on Saturday.

Good news is that I have finally measured myself and I have lost between 1 and 3 inches everywhere ie arms are 1 inch less, hips 3 inches, legs 1.5 inches.... Love that the tape measure finally looks better Smile

Beautiful3 · 18/06/2020 15:01

Wow well done moonlight, that's amazing!

harriethoyle · 18/06/2020 15:37

@moonlight1705 that's fabulous!!

I'm fully expecting to go over my calories today because my OH has finally got his decree nisi! Gin or champagne chilling for when I finish work! Grin

Waspie · 18/06/2020 16:48

Awesome moonlight really well done Flowers

Checking in (late) as a Thursday faster. I fasted Monday as well. My usual cup a soup for lunch and a mushroom omelette with salad for dinner.

After a month of no weight loss I have lost 1Kg in the last week. Hopefully that sees the end of my plateau and I can shift a few more Kg before the next one hits.

Good luck other Thursday fasters!

Waspie · 18/06/2020 16:49

Enjoy your bubbles harriet! Wine

BigChocFrenzy · 18/06/2020 18:19

Congratulations on your inches NSV, Moonlight

and on your plateau-busting SV, Waspie

OP posts:
spatchcock · 18/06/2020 22:50

0.9kg off this week - almost double the usual 0.5kg weekly drop so a big SV for me! 🎉

Well done @moonlight1705 on your inches that is brilliant.

Godspeed to any Friday fasters!

Vgtasd · 18/06/2020 22:59

This is such a great supportive group! Finishing my first FD on 506cals, going to try to do my second fast tomorrow but might leave it until Saturday x

inthethickofit19 · 18/06/2020 23:27

Today has been a bit of a train wreck Sadbut I'll fast tomorrow

BCF sorry if I missed it but I didn't see a response on my question re birch oil?

BigChocFrenzy · 18/06/2020 23:36

Congratulations on your SV, Spatchcock

Well done on an excellent 1st FD, Vgtasd

Sorry, inthethick I didn't notice your question before
You haven't a lot of weight to lose, so shouldn't have noticeable loose skin at goal
However, you could start using birch oil daily from now on, to keep skin supple

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 18/06/2020 23:39

Vgtasd Probably best to avoid a b2b (consecutive FDs) when you are starting off and adapting to fasting

If you can do a Saturday FD, that often brings more benefit than weekdays,
as it helps avoid too much weekend indulgence

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 19/06/2020 06:54

I'm on FD 2 of the week today, for the time being I have swapped from a Thursday to a Friday and it seems to work better for me.

Well done spatchcock on that really great loss!

Who else is joining me today?

inthethickofit19 · 19/06/2020 07:34

Thanks BCF. I think a lot of is terrible loose muscle which I need to target with Pilates etc

Checking in for a FD here today. Whose with me? Need to drink loads of water today

NathanNathan · 19/06/2020 09:06

I'm doing three minis per week now inthethick one today so with you! Smile

Despite being a bit up and down while getting used to 5:2 and finding the best way for me (settled on 3 minis for now), I've stuck to 16:8 at least each day and am 2.5 lbs down this week.

Fingers crossed it continues - I still have around 3 - 4 stone to lose!

Waspie · 19/06/2020 09:21

Good luck moonlight, inthethickofit, Nathan and any other Friday fasters Brew

NFD for me today. I'm working (from home) but have to take the dog out for a decent walk later this morning. I'm just hoping it stops raining. It's not so much walking in the rain that I dislike, it's having to deal with a smelly, wet labrador afterwards!

Upsidedownrightnow · 19/06/2020 09:57

@moonlight1705 - great news on your inches lost well done :)

@spatchcock - well done on your loss :)

@NathanNathan - how are you finding doing 3 mini fd? well done on your weightloss this week :)

I fasted yesterday and honestly it was terrible, i was extremely grumpy and couldn't focus and was just so upset. I ended on 722cals which is lucky as I nearly had a complete binge and meltdown, but I stayed controlled.

anyway today i weighed myself and i was 9.12.2 (Tuesday i was 9.13.6) so I have lost just over a pound in a few days so i'm happy with that, but i honestly don't know if i can keep fasting, its the lack of energy that is too difficult and its also not fair on my dd as i was extremely grumpy

Vgtasd · 19/06/2020 10:33

Thanks bigchocfrenzy I'll leave my fast for tomorrow, thanks so much for the advice xx

robertsmithscorpsebride · 19/06/2020 10:44

morning everyone and welcome to all the new members (I only started this week too) Grin

I've been mad busy since weds and not logged on... have quickly read through the last 2 pages, well done to all the successful fasters, lots of you. Congrats harriet enjoy the celebration later Smile

fantastic SV spatch and upside and great NSV moon

I'm with you today inthethick I went slightly over on weds evening as worried about Ddog, but she's fine now so panic over (not food but a few glasses of wine!)

Going to look into the 3 mini fds, might be a good alternative some weeks. bcf is it fine to mix 2 fds and 3 minis week by week??

robertsmithscorpsebride · 19/06/2020 10:45

oops, missed you off nathan well done on your loss Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 19/06/2020 11:08

Good luck with your fasting, Moonlight, inthethick, Nathan, Robert

and good luck tomorrow, Vgtasd

Congratulations on your SV, Nathan

Patience and persistence are key when you have a few stone to lose,
but you are doing really well and you can nail that goal

I recommend dividing it up into minigoals to celebrate,
e.g. every 5lb, 5kg, stone and the big milestones of breaking into a lower BMI range

Robert Yes, you can decide each week what you want to do, 2 FDs or 3 MiniFDs 8800-1000 cals)
Same fasting rules for each: no alcohol, no junk

Congratulations on your SV, Upside

You might find 3 MiniFDs more sustainable rather than 2 FDs, because you could have 3 small meals, or 2 medium ones

Have you resumed eating healthy carbs every day, to keep up your energy ?
And plenty of veg, beans and water ?
Make sure you eat your full TDEE on NFDs, to help reduce FD hunger

As you said you have a problem moderating sugary / junky carbs,
it is probably best to cut these out on NFDs, or just have one sensible portion on say 2 NFDs

  • because they can make you hungrier on FDs as well, even if you don't have any junk then

Also, if you are having diet fizz on FDs,
Mosely recommends cutting this out, because it can spike insulin for some people, just like sugar and increase hunger later

OP posts:
Upsidedownrightnow · 19/06/2020 12:33

@BigChocFrenzy - i have started eating healthy carbs again. Ive had lots of veg and water but no beans.

I worked out my tdee was just under 2000cals for nfd if i worked out minimum 3 days per week.

I was planning to work out 5 days per week but it hasn't happened, so far i have done 3 workouts of minimum 30mins this week and i'm planning to do another workout now, so with this in mind i would be at moderate level as we discussed before but i have been trying to keep to my lightly active level which would be 1750 cals.

So maybe this is where i am going wrong?

Do you think if perhaps I kept to 1700 cals per day and then had 2 mini fd I would still loose weight? If i ensure i am exercising minimum 3 days per week?

I have worked out:

correct tdee = 2000 x 7 days = 14,000
14,000 - 3500 (1lbs) = 10,500 - 2000 (2 mini fd calories) = 8500
8500 split into 5 NFD = 1,700 per day?

I havn't been eating many sugary treats, I made some protein brownies a few days ago and had them as treats or a very small amount of chocolate in the evenings (about 3-5squares). all within my calories.

I sometimes have pespi max of fd and usually i find it makes me less hungry.