Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

968 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Ithinkyourewonderful · 07/05/2019 10:51

Joining you today MrD Maud Fortythree and Harriet - we can do this!
Maud I'm so not feeling it today either, but will do my best - I know I'll feel much better having got it out of the way! I have already had a coffee with soy milk so blown quite a few calories, but I'll aim for 600 today.

BigChoc it does sound like you have a fabulous lifestyle! So amazing to have the advice of a real-life scientist! Thank you for all your help on this forum.

Moongirl10 · 07/05/2019 11:55

Joining the fasters today too! Might do a b2b this week, not sure yet.

alltalknobaby · 07/05/2019 12:42

Good luck to all Tuesday fasters 😊

Attempting a FD but travelling today so not sure how it's going to go. Just tea and water so far, hoping I can get something low cal for lunch at the airport 🙏🏻 I figured fasting when travelling will be easier than fasting at a hotel 🤷🏻‍♀️

EssentialHummus · 07/05/2019 13:37

Ah maud I hope your day is rolling on OK and that you're powering through. B2b day 2 here - coffee this morning, the a big veg stew with broccoli on top for lunch and that is hopefully it for today, bar a few more coffees. Weighed in this morning and I think things are vaguely heading the right way - I'm still zigzagging but seem to be more firmly in the 71kg range rather than higher. Good luck to others today!

Miffytastic · 07/05/2019 14:08

Dropped down into the 9s today! I did 9 days ago after giving blood (?) then bounced back up, but hope I stay out of the 10s for good.
Day 2 of my 2:5 800 week. Pushed breakfast a bit later his morning and just having lunch now.

harriethoyle · 07/05/2019 14:35

Disaster! Forgot work meeting with client lunch Confused so I am chalking today up to an IF, will watch cals tonight and will fast tomorrow instead. Grrrr.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 16:01

Good luck, wonderful, moongirl, alltalk, hummus

Good idea to fast when travelling, alltalk
An FD is better for your health than airplane meals and better for your wallet than big airport meals.

Congratulations on your SV, miffy
keep to daily low carb, even on the NFDs and you should keep going further down into the 9s

No disaster at all, Harriet
5:2 is very flexible, so you can switch around FDs whenever an unexpected social event happens, no worries.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 07/05/2019 16:41

Kitchen closed on 479 today

Plenty of water now and a cuppa later and I'll be sorted.

Harriet - not a disaster at all, postponed to another day is all Smile

Its a busy day for fasters - so hope the rest of you are having a good one!

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 18:33

Well done, MrD

I'm glad you find the threads helpful, wonderful Smile

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 07/05/2019 18:34

Well done, fasters Smile

NFD for me and have been ok-ish. I did sneak a couple of biscuits earlier but managed to avoid picking at the afterschool snacks so that's an improvement Grin

Oh and swam 32 lengths before work this morning - the last couple of weeks we've dropped to 20 lengths but I'd already told myself (and my swim buddy) last night that we'd be doing 32!! Hoping to keep that up for the rest of the week but we'll see.

Has anyone successfully weaned themselves off sugar and lost their sweet tooth altogether? I gave up sugar in my coffee a couple of years ago but haven't managed to progress any further.

milleniumhandandprawn · 07/05/2019 18:44

Evening all!

Have had a read - this is such a lovely thread - so supportive :)

I picked up a couple of stats along the way which sounded like great results, but was wondering generally how much weight people have lost over what period?

I've probably got 1-1.5 stone until I'm comfortable, but if I want to look my best it's more like 2st (or more)

Being tall is great for hiding weight gain... but also really good at hiding losses!

Do the fast days get easier over time? Today was ok hunger wise but the headaches have been killer.

blodynmawr · 07/05/2019 19:09

FD done at approx 700 cals.
Well done everyone else who fasted today - seems like Tuesday is a popular day to choose!

hoochymamgu · 07/05/2019 19:41

Woo bright shiny thread, thanks BCF.
Well done Blod Grin
FD for me too today, will do another tomorrow. Had marmite drink in early pm so no headache for me today Smile
Well done all you other Tuesday fasters Thanks

EssentialHummus · 07/05/2019 20:33

Well done mrd, hoochy. Well done on your swim clutter.

millennium I'm down nearly two stone in 7-ish months. So not very quick but relatively easy and I hope sustainable, with some good lessons along the way about what and why I eat! Now 71.5ish kg and hoping to get down to 70 soon, will reassess then. And I genuinely find the fast days easy - it's almost always either "Oh well, I can have that tomorrow" or "Hold on, I'm not actually hungry, I'm thirsty/stressed".

The usual lunchtime meal for me today, then a rice cake in the evening, and 3 coffees. I think around 650 calories. Let's see what the scales say tomorrow!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 07/05/2019 20:38

Well done Tues gang Smile fd done here on 570, feeling rubbish though, got sore throat, very achey and tummy is a bit off... hoping I'll sleep it off!!

Welcome millennium and good luck. How tall are you? I wouldn't say fds get easier but you definitely do get used to them and some days I really enjoy them. ..other days not so much Grin I've lost relatively slow and steady, so started at 14 stone March 2018 and I'm now 11stone 10lbs, had a couple of plateaus (currently in another one!) But others will have lost more and much more quickly than me. For me this is about a WOL that doesn't feel like a diet but is flexible and allows me to have nights out, holidays and enjoy social occasions knowing that a good couple of fds will undo any damage from said events.

milleniumhandandprawn · 07/05/2019 21:25

Thanks forty and essential!

That's awesome that you've both lost 2 stone - it clearly works!
It's so good to hear that the FDs get somewhat easier... although today was fine really - better than I expected anyway.

I'm a shade under 6ft tall. Which generally I love, but when I'm heavier I do tend to feel like an ungainly lump alla Miranda.

I'm 13.5st now and would ideally be 12 (or less!). I think my bmi currently is about 26.
I've got an event on 4th July - if I can be in the 12s by then I'll be thrilled!

hoochy what is this marmite drink? How does it prevent headaches???

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 21:34

Clutter I was eating ridiculous amount of choc in various forms - choc itself, cookies, cheesecake, donuts.
I kicked the habit farly easily with fasting, probably because it wasn't for emotional reasons, just greed Blush

I already kept the 2 FDS free of this junk, of course
I then moved to having one portion every other NFD and finally 2:5ed it, i.e. on only 2 NFDs

Now I only indulge every couple of weeks in a sweet pud at a good restaurant

Some folk can cut down like I did and just lose the urge;
others - imo those with insulin metabolism or emotional issues - find they can't so moderation and have to cut it out completely.
It's very individual

Millenium Most people adapt to fasting within 2-3 weeks, so the FDs become easier after that

What helps:

  • a level teasp Marmite mid-morning & mid-afternoon, to replenish lost salt & minerals while your body is adapting This helps avoid headaches or feeling weak.
  • plenty of water - avoid flavoured fizzy drinks, as they don't hydrate well during fasting
  • no snacks, no grazing
  • 1-2 meals for 500 cal FDs; 2-3 meals for 800 cals
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 21:46

Well done on your FD, blod, hoochy, 43

Millenium The rate of loss varies a lot, depending on your sex, how much you have to lose, whether you are peri/meno, have PCOS, thyroid, certain medications etc

Those with a few stone to go sometimes lose 3-4 lb for several weeks before slowing down
In contrast, someone petite and already within the lower half of healthy BMI, but trying to lose 4 lb might only lose 1lb per month
(Exceptions) A couple of people lost over 10lb the first week - nearly all retained water, which was causing high BP

On average, most people lose a few lb over the first 2 weeks, then after a few more weeks settle down to a longterm 1lb weekly

It usually depends whether your "normal" eating on NFDs is roughly what your body burns to maintain weight, so you don't eat back the FD deficit
or whether your normal eating - or drinking - needs retraining to what your body actually burns at your current age and activity level

OP posts:
milleniumhandandprawn · 08/05/2019 07:38

Thanks so much bigchocfrenzy that's really useful.

Will make sure I get some marmite for tomorrow....

I've got a client lunch today - there will definitely be wine! But I'll only have a little bit :) and try and stick to the healthier options on the table!

MFP says I finished yesterday at 487 - and then it told me off for not eating enough 😂

erniewise · 08/05/2019 07:43

Morning all...good day yesterday and good results on the scales. Not feeling hungry really but didn't sleep well last night and feeling really low on energy today. Have a big lunch (low cal but high protein) so focusing on that as a means to resist sugar temptation (there are always tonnes of sweets at work). Oh for another 2 hours in bed... 😴

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 08/05/2019 08:08

Morning all! Successful-ush FD yesterday, probably went a bit over on cals as I absent-mindedly ate a couple of ds's Percy pigs whilst chatting to him about his GCSEs 🙄

But...due to aforementioned exams I'm feeling a bit nervous for him and not in the mood for eating, so could use this to my advantage and turn it into a b2b!

OohMrDarcy · 08/05/2019 09:11

Morning all looks like a big win for the Tuesday fasters - well done all!

Clutter - big well done on the 32 lengths swimming, thats fab!

Millenium - I'm just over 2.5 stone now and started at the start of Jan this year - HOWEVER - I have rather a lot to lose, I'm just over 1/3 through what I would like to lose at the moment so as BigChoc says - that is why I've lost more easily. Oh and I never bother 'completing' the day on MFP on FDs, I get annoyed by the telling off Grin

nolongersurprised · 08/05/2019 11:05

I picked up a couple of stats along the way which sounded like great results, but was wondering generally how much weight people have lost over what period?

I’ve lost just over 10kg since December, that’s with not calorie counting on NFD at all. I’m pretty much there, I’d like to lose maybe one more kilo.

I found the fast days hideous initially but now they’ve pretty fine. It’s mainly mental I find, now that I know I can get through them and not feel ravenous it’s not a problem. I get hungry twice at 9am and 2pm but it passes fairly quickly.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/05/2019 11:38

Well done on your FD, millenium, ernie
and on your SV, ernie

There is a way iirc to set mfp for 5:2, so it doesn't whinge
Any expert mfpers know the trick ? Hmm

OP posts:
milleniumhandandprawn · 08/05/2019 12:33

Thanks so much for sharing your results! So inspirational!
Have been feeling lumpy for such a long time now so am happy with slow progress - it beats no progress every time!

When I did 5:2 back in 2013 I joined the forums connected to MFP, but got banned (Shock) for "promoting disordered eating habits".
Basically they couldn't understand the principle of IF and wouldn't allow anyone to discuss them in the forums there.
Maybe they've changed their stance now though!