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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

968 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 30/06/2019 07:27

Checking in for a Sunday FD here, anyone else? I foresee lots of water and have even put a cup-worth of coffee in the freezer in an ice lolly mould. Smile

Well done mittens and bug!

boxlikeamarchhare · 30/06/2019 09:09

Popping back after not doing anything for a couple of weeks, lost my stride thanks to the grass pollen season giving me asthma/hayfever.

I cant remember when I last posted but I have gained a kg.

I am planning on fasting today.

KnittingForMittens · 30/06/2019 12:03

Thank you Hummus!

Hope everyone is OK. A lot cooler today here in UK.

I've not had any breakfast or any mid morning snacks. Been at work on the go! I'm eating lunch now and I'm already feeling full after a lettuce and ham sandwich and a boiled egg! I'm usually eating left right and centre when it is lunch. I've still got 0% fat Greek yoghurt, pea snacks and strawberries to consume yet lol.

KnittingForMittens · 30/06/2019 12:25

@boxlikeamarchhare hope you feel better soon allergies are awful aren't they?! Sad

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2019 12:50

Good luck, hummus and any other Sunday fasters
I hope your allergies calm down v soon, depends on whether you are allergic to more than one type of pollen and how long that pollen is high

My GP showed me a huge chart of all the different tree / grass / flower pollens and the dates they are usually high over the year

I had bad hay fever for a couple of weeks March-April, tree pollen and what worked was to keep the windows closed (!) and stay indoors (!) as much as possible

However, I live right on the Rhine bank and have trees near my windows
My daily Rhine walk was actually making me much worse, so I had to cut them out until my symptoms stopped

Don't worry, box
We all take short breaks form fasting for hols and you only have a kg to zap, soon gone
Always good to return so promptly, while regain is only a trivial amount

I hope your your hay fever also goes quickly

I hope you enjoyed your salad last night, filly
Maybe another summery one tonight ?

That's a tasty and healthy menu for the day, mittens
Don't worry about eating full fat Greek yoghurt especially on NFDs - it's more filling and I find it creamier than the low fat

Plain Skyr yoghurt is v low fat, but I find that super creamy and the v high protein is even more filling
It's my fav yoghurt now, FD or NFD.
Goes well with a spoonful of chia seads / flaked almonds, cinammon and berries

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 30/06/2019 20:20

Gosh, easiest fast day ever here! I think the heat worked in my favour. Coffee for breakfast and big bowls of lettuce, tomatoes and cucumber with a light dressing for lunch and dinner. And an Oreo Smile. Spent the day in the garden with DD tending to my veg patch and pulling endless weeds; it was lovely.

I won't manage a b2b tomorrow, will try for Tuesday. Good luck to all Monday fasters.

EssentialHummus · 30/06/2019 20:21

I have been meaning to try Skyr bigchoc, it's good to hear you like it.

NightmareLoon · 30/06/2019 21:55

Only managed 1 FD this week as got ill on Wednesday but down 1 pound so I'll take it. Tuesday and Thursday FDs coming up this week!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2019 23:07

Well done on your FD, Hummus
I also find I am not very hungry in a heatwave, even when I go to the gym

Yes, I recommend Skyr; a 150 ml tub is a good-sized portion but only 85 cals

  • do check you have the natural, because the other versions with berries etc have added sugar of course

Well done on your SV, Loon
I hope you are fully fit now
Good luck next week

OP posts:
KnittingForMittens · 30/06/2019 23:20

@BigChocFrenzy thanks for the idea! I've had skyr yoghurt before and I really enjoy them so I will take a look in Aldi tomorrow and see what availability there are. I wouldn't mind eating full fat Greek yoghurt but it has to be flavoured as the plain one taste very sour and off for my tastebuds Grin

Back on for another week. Already planned my meals out! Not sure if this is advised but I've been skipping breakfast for the last few days EXCEPT for when I've been fasting the day before, that's when I'll have a small bowl of porridge or even a banana and a bit of toast the next morning. Normal days I will just have 2 cups of coffee between 6am-12pm then I have my lunch, then a snack around 3 ish? And dinner at 7. I can live without having breakfast, but I absolutely need lunch and dinner.

Bring on weigh in Saturday! I am hoping to be back in the 9stone bracket! Good luck everyone :)

BigChocFrenzy · 01/07/2019 07:18

Good luck for Saturday, Mittens

Most people prefer to skip breakfast on FDs and just have black coffee

On NFDs, some do better with breakfast, some without.
Whatever suits the individual

OP posts:
StarlingSong · 01/07/2019 07:21

Amazing MrD! Well done on your fantastic result. Your camping weekend sounds like my idea of heaven, hope you enjoyed it.

Fantastic Mittens, Bug and Loon! What great SV results :)

Mittens I like the idea of only having breakfast the day after a FD…might give it a go too.

Sounds like a great day BCF - I envy you having the beautiful Rhine to walk along.

I need some of your gardening motivation Hummus. Mine is looking extremely ordinary at the moment.

I weighed last week and am at 72kg - so a 1kg gain in my month when I couldn’t seem to manage two FDs a week! I’m thinking I’ll only weigh in again at the end of July so I’m not driving myself crazy with the scale - it makes me anxious and I tend to overthink things. Part of my ‘keeping it simple’ plan.

Had a lovely weekend and have been looking forward to my FD today! So nice to reset and rebalance for the week ahead. Morning black coffee, mushroom broth (61cal) for lunch and a mushroom & tomato omelette for dinner.

Off to put Skyr on my shopping list for the week. Good luck to all fasting today!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/07/2019 08:02

Good luck, Starling
Some folk prefer to weigh every 4 weeks and just go by clothes fit

Going on last mońth, sounds like your "normal" eating on NFDs is well above TDEE, what you burn,
as 6:1 should still bring loss at this stage - unless you are already lean and within healthy BMI

So, I recommend you try to retrain your normal:

One week on mfp - no need for longer if you don't like it - has been a reality check / shock for many,
which helps highlight problem areas to work on:
portion size, added sugar from sweet treats, alcohol, crisps, pizza, takeaway .....

Try to keep 5:2 healthy habits, even at weekends:

  • NHS alcohol limits - daily & weekly
  • NEVER snack / graze between meals,
  • have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
  • lots of water & veg
  • cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones
OP posts:
StarlingSong · 01/07/2019 09:15

Thank you BCF. I was hoping to maintain but ultimately expected a gain for the month - I think I only managed 4 FDs in June and lot of very off plan eating. I lost my focus and indulged in way too much sugar which I think led to a constant feeling of hunger and then even more eating which is how I got this extra weight on me to begin with!

Feeling much better since I've been on here, am getting back into my 5:2 groove. Agree that I should MFP for a week or two to get myself on track and retrain what "normal" should be for me. Will do so this week - should be interesting!

OohMrDarcy · 01/07/2019 10:05

Morning all

Had a beautiful weekend! Saturday was so hot we did nothing much but lay in the shade reading! Once the sun started going down we went for a wander along the plain to see the herd of deer that live there but that was it. Such a relaxing time!

Anyway back to real life today! Fasting Tuesday and Friday again this week. Just doing meal plans for the week now too.

Mittens and bug - congrats on the fabulous SVs!

Bigchoc - bet your aircon was a life saver this weekend!!!

Well done to box and hummus for sunday FDs!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/07/2019 10:21

Sounds a blissfully relaxed WE out in the countryside, MrD

OP posts:
KnittingForMittens · 01/07/2019 12:37

I'm feeling very hungry today :( it is not my fasting day so I've had 4x small wheat crackers with full fat cheese spread and cucumber. Had strawberries, an apple, a pear and a boiled egg. For snack I had some chickpea crisps. I want to just drink plenty of water now until dinner tonight which will be lamb koftas, couscous, halloumi and oven top muffin! I was going to fast Wednesday as that's when I'm at work, but I think I might do it tomorrow instead. The last day I fast was Thursday and I now realise the 5 day gap is quite large to have NFDs...

BigChocFrenzy · 01/07/2019 12:53

Try to avoid snacking between meals, mittens especially on processed food

  • it keeps insulin levels raised, which increases overall hunger and reduces fat-burning for fuel

You would probably feel fuller for longer if you had a proper meal,
instead of crackers with things on them and all that fruit - that's all very bitty, lots of carbs & sugar, with not much protein

I suggest next time you try a fried / grilled brunch
e.g. poached eggs / veg omelette, bacon, mushrooms, tomato , with 100% rye or wholemeal toast
with 1 slice of toast & Philly (not something sweet) if still hungry

or porridge (not the flavoured instant kind) with cinammon, flaked almonds & berries or sliced apple with skin
with 1 slice of toast & natural peanut butter or a boiled egg if still hungry

OP posts:
KnittingForMittens · 01/07/2019 13:34

@BigChocFrenzy absolutely not having anything else now until tonight! I kind of let myself down slightly today. I haven't binged or gorged / overfilled myself but I did snack on chickpea crisps and an apple and pear after having my lunch. I've not been had enough water so I have filled up a 1L bottle and sipping on that til dinner. Tomorrow and the rest of the week will be better I just hope it doesn't impact on the scales on Saturday!

purplereindeer · 01/07/2019 15:01

Hello!

I lost four stone using IF (various forms at different times) a couple of years ago, now I'm back to lose the weight baby number four left me with!

I do 23:1/OMAD and I eat at lunch time. I've had two successful days thus far, I'm away camping for a friend's 40th from Wednesday-Friday so I will try to stick to OMAD, but with additional gin!

I'm 11 stone 7 now, my happy weight is 10 stone exactly and I'd like to be there for our big family holiday in October.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/07/2019 15:02

FDs are "diet days"
NFDs are normal eating days when you have satisfying meals, not diet food

Relax and enjoy NFDs, Smile - that makes this WOE sustainable

You don't want to feel hungry or restricted on NFDs, except in the hour before a meal
However, you were eating typical " diet" food - crackers with bits & bobs, lots of fruit, which isn't filling for the calories

Instead, when you are hungry on NFDs, have a proper meal that satisfies you
Plenty of protein, ideally plenty of veg, some starchy carbs

Mosely recommends no more than 2 portions fruit per day
Boost veg instead
Savoury is generally more filling for longer than sweet

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/07/2019 15:05

Welcome, reindeer Smile and good luck

I'd recommend moving to 5:2 next week

OMAD typically works for women for about the first 3 weeks, then loss stops
In the meantime, you have got used to huge meals .....

OP posts:
boxlikeamarchhare · 02/07/2019 06:20

Hello, I forgot to come back but FD achieved on Sunday and a v good NFD yesterday .... I weighed in this morning and am lower than ever since I started. 👍🏻.

I am rowing again, building back up. FD tomorrow. Really busy at work so might not post much this week.

NightmareLoon · 02/07/2019 08:00

FD today but my period arrived so I might have to go off plan a bit if I need to take ibuprofen with food. I should plan my backup plan. (Probably a milky coffee instead of black.)

BigChocFrenzy · 02/07/2019 08:23

Well done on your SV, Box
and on your FD

Good luck,loon and any other Tuesday faster

OP posts: