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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

968 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:17

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Grin Welcome to 5:2 thread # 85 ! Grin
We’re a very friendly bunch, so pop in and join us

FAQs & tips in the OP

"HOW TO START" section has

  • Tips & FAQs
  • FD & NFD recipes
  • Meal planner
  • Body Goal Visualisers
  • Calculators for TDEE, Body Fat, Frame Size, Ideal Weight Range, Daily Alcohol Units & Cals

"Scientific Evidence for Health & Fasting" is at the end of the OP and includes links to peer-reviewed science papers

🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 03/05/2019 10:26

oooh love a new thread! Thanks BigChoc!

Loving the title too - I don't tell people unless they ask, which invariably they are at the moment! Grin

housewifeoflittleitaly · 03/05/2019 10:44

Thanks great thread!

Just started my journey 11lbs ⬇️ So far another stone to go.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:45

Welocme, housewife 🙂
and well done on your SV

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 03/05/2019 11:02

Thanks bigchoc, checking in. Nfd today, and scales seem to be moving in the right direction here. 1lb down since Wednesday.

alltalknobaby · 03/05/2019 11:06

Thanks bcf, love the title Grin

NFD here but going to try to stay sub-1700 (TDEE is 1780). Have already entered my glass of wine later onto MFP 😂

Ithinkyourewonderful · 03/05/2019 12:05

Hello, thanks for the new thread bigchoc! I've just been catching up on the thread and everyone is doing so well - so much positivity! Keep it up everyone!

I had my second FD of the week yesterday and probably ended up around 800 instead of the planned 500 Blush so more like a mini, but I'll take it and try again next week. I think I will try to aim for 600/650 from now as I am close to my goal weight and seem to struggle with blood sugar on just 500 cal.

SV! 61 kgs this morning (despite slight blow out on the FD). Aiming for 60 kg (from original goal of 62kg). so only one kg to go. The the hard part.....maintenance!

Good luck to todays fasters!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/05/2019 14:13

Thanks bcf Flowers

welcome housewife, great SV so far.

well done on your SV too wonderful not far to goal Grin and you essential

gah I forgot its mys SIL's birthday and we are heading over straight after work for cake and fizz, that's going to be hard to resist on a FD plus she'll have a face on because I won't be partaking (she's a bit competitive re: weight loss) weirdo Grin wish me luck!!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 15:51

Well done on your SV, hummus
Good progress

and well done on your SV, wonderful
650 cals is fine, even so near to goal.
Always best to increase the FD calories a bit if this makees it more sustainable

Good plan, alltalk

43 I recommend you celebrate fully this evening with your family - it's a good plan to have very little before a feast
So you've nailed that and also avoided family stress.

Then have your FD or a miniFD tomorrow - a sub-1000 Saturday mini without alcohol or junk can make as much difference to your weekly progress as a weekday FD

OP posts:
erniewise · 03/05/2019 17:08

Hi all, have been an angel all day but now it's Friday, I'm tired, I'm craving carbs, and I've bought wine. I will try to resist or at least moderate, and definitely bear Bigchoc's advise re: taking 4 days to compensate for 2 days off if I blow the calorie budget! And lots of activity planned for tomorrow to burn cals and keep away from the fridge! Happy weekend all!

erniewise · 03/05/2019 17:09

advice

OohMrDarcy · 03/05/2019 17:39

Kitchen closed on about 500 / 520 here.

Well done all!

43, I agree with bigchoc - abandon hope and go have fun!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 18:04

Well done, MrD

ernie It's not the calories - it's the type

Mosely says to keep to the Fast800 rules - so no wine or starchy carbs - but increase portion size to get to TDEE calories,
e.g. have extra veg sides, more protein, cream, butter etc so you feel full again

With low carb diets, it's getting out of ketosis - e.g. wine & carbs - that costs the extra 2 days to get back in, not the calories

Otherwise, you might find it easier to move out of Fast800 - if you are only full on for 3 days per week - and go on to ordinary 5:2 ?

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 03/05/2019 19:10

Hi everyone!
Not been on the 5:2 threads for ages Blush but very much need to climb back on the wagon. Motivation is not great at the moment but I'm hoping that reading through the op will give me a boost.
I have spent virtually all day eating and watching tv and feel wretched.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 19:47

Welcome back, clutter

First step, drink a glass of water, then clean your teeth, to avoid eating any more tonight.

Why not climb back on the fasting horse right away and plan an FD for tomorrow, with the menu calorie counted in advance

You could ease in with an 800 FD or even a sub-1000 minFD
Important for either: no alcohol, no junk, especially sugar

If you can't manage that, then at least this weekend

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 19:50

(Oops, hair trigger ipad )
If you can't manage that, then at least this weekend keep 5:2 healthy habits and on all on NFDs:

NEVER snack / graze between meals
NHS alcohol limits
sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
lots of water & veg
cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/05/2019 19:54

Thanks for the advice but I'm out with my friend tomorrow (whom I much prefer to spend time with!) so I've resisted temptation and stuck to my fd Halo just had soup and sliced chicken and coming in at 545cals.

Welcome back clutter just take 1 day at a time and you'll be fine. Keep posting here.

ernie if it's an nfd then factor in a few treats Smile

Clutterfreeintraining · 03/05/2019 20:54

Thank you BigChoc and Forty.

I will take your advice - drink some water and brush my teeth. And yes, tomorrow will be a FD. I have the right ingredients - just need to focus!!

OohMrDarcy · 03/05/2019 20:56

Well done you 43! Yoube earned 😇 of the week with that one!!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 21:07

Good luck, clutter Smile
You sound positive and motivated, now

Wow, 43 that's amazing discipline & diplomacy
Definitely deserves a Halo
Motivation being you wanted to enjoy tomorrow with your much nicer friend instead !

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 03/05/2019 21:53

BigChoc - thanks Smile

OohMrDarcy · 04/05/2019 06:34

Morning all, scales showing 0.4lb down and now 15st 5lb.

Not convinced by that number myself however also not bothered. Very nearly at another big milestone and it might be that my body has decided to hold on to what it has for a bit longer or something. It's all good - I'm keeping on keeping on!

You may well not hear from me before Monday now as I'm off going grid having some much needed downtime. Have a great bank holiday weekend all!

BigChocFrenzy · 04/05/2019 07:35

Well done on your SV, mrD
yet another milestone coming up

Your camping weekend sounds very relaxing,
Just yourself to sort out and all those lovely walks

I'm fasting today, a b2b weekend because next week I'm back at work and have business lunches
On maintenance, so I'll just do miniFDs

Anyone else fasting?

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/05/2019 08:41

Fantastic sv mrd after your rate of loss I wouldn't be surprised if your body is recalibrating ready for a whoosh Smile enjoy your trip

Wow bcf b2b on a weekend Shock

Same old story here.... stayed the same. I feel smaller, my clothes are looser, I even have a proper collarbone now but those scales just do not budge past 11 st 10 lb..... wtaf! I just properly checked mfp and give or take half a 1lb or 1lb up or down I've maintained this weight since beginning of dec Grin so the good news is I am ace at maintaining, just a shame I haven't got to my goal weight yet. Dh says I look fab and that I should just set this as my goal and focus on toning up, psychologically I want to be 11 7 or under..... hmmmpppfff! Its disheartening when you hear women of my age and height who are a whole 2 stones lighter, how is that possible!! Anyhow, I'll keep on and see what happens next week Smile

Have a great weekend everyone

BigChocFrenzy · 04/05/2019 08:53

43 If you are within healthy BMI
and your waist (measured at narrowest point, about 2" above navel) is less than half your height,

then this could well be your natural weight.

If not, then I recommend checking NFD intake, using mfp for one week:

Check whether alcohol intake is within NHS limits of about 2 units each NFD and 14 per week Calc Units Calss*

OP posts: