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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

968 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
purplereindeer · 02/07/2019 08:58

Thanks BigChoc I calorie count my OMAD, so I'm not too worried about that. The big meals allow me to eat 1200 a day (I'm short!) without feeling as though I have to eat like a two year old!

Today I will be eating tortellini with green veg, and greek yogurt with three pieces of fruit.

OohMrDarcy · 02/07/2019 09:25

Morning all,

checking in for a Tuesday FD here - Having a grilled chicken salad for lunch today, that will cover most of my cals. Have a jug of water next to my desk and am happily working my way through that, and will have a cup of tea tonight.

Welcome reindeer - I do OMAD for my FDs generally, but wouldn't want to all the time! 2 is plenty for me though - I don't do breakfast and generally 16:8 for my 2 meals.

KnittingForMittens · 02/07/2019 11:34

Morning! I'm on a FD today. I have a major headache though :( I've had 2x sugarless coffee and a boiled egg. I have also had 1L of water! I am going to have a cup of soup shortly (58kcal)

BigChocFrenzy · 02/07/2019 15:38

Good luck, mittens
If you glug a teap Marmite (10 cals) mid-morning and / or mid-afternoon, that helps avoid headaches or feeling weak

OP posts:
KnittingForMittens · 02/07/2019 20:50

@BigChocFrenzy I will take that into consideration the next time I feel icky! I felt better once I had plenty of fluids. I honestly think it was dehydration I just need to drink lots more water.

FD has been a success! Overnight oats all prepared for tomorrow morning for breakfast! Hope everyone else has had a good day.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/07/2019 21:22

Well done, mittens

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 03/07/2019 09:30

Morning all,

woken feeling and looking a bit bloated which is weird after a FD. Stuck to one of my usual FD meals so no change there... ho hum - shall keep plugging away and it will bugger off again soon I'm sure.

Well done mittens!

How is everyone else today?

Pineappleunder · 03/07/2019 10:18

Been reading but not commenting for a couple of weeks. Really interesting to see fellow newbies go through the same highs and then struggles that I have since starting a few months ago.
Also massive respect to the likes of @oohmrdarcy who have been successfully filling this WOE for a while.

Fasted on Monday and now trying to decide if I should today or Friday. It's already gone 11 so I suppose I may as well do today.
I haven't exercised for almost a week because the heat here has been insane (high 30s) but after a mega thunderstorm last night I am pleased to see a cloudy sky and much more reasonable mid 20s forecast for today.
Still struggling to not drink over the limits on NFD but despite that the weight is slowly coming off. The next milestone is to be a stone down 3lb to go.
Thanks everyone for support.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 10:27

Well done on your SV, pineapple
and on your progress forming new alcohol habits
Drink lots of water, especially with a heatwave and / or exercise

Some days it's just hormonal swings, MrD
or after losing a chunk of weight, sometimes the body will fill some emptied fat cells with water, until it is ready to release the water in a whoosh and drop more weight

I hope you feel less bloated later today, but if not, then you will probably be due a whoosh soon

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 03/07/2019 10:28

Welcome pineapple

Unless you've done a b2b before I don't reccomend you try it without planning (and having the extra 150 cals on the first day!) wouldn't want to struggle and put you off.
I generally do a Monday / Tuesday and Thursday / Friday - this always gives me a couple of days in between, which I find helps because my body gets longer between fasts, but also because I'm concious of making good choices until after my second fast day! I relax a little on the weekends (though not massively!)

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 10:57

Yep, MrD is right that b2b is v tough for newbies - and many old hands can't do them either
See how you go today, but it's fine to turn tody into a miniFD (sub-1000 cals) or just a normal NFD withinTDEE

If you do decide on a b2b, now or another time, you have 650 cals per day instead of 500
or if you already did 500 cals on FD1, then have 800 cals on FD2, to reach the 1300 b2b total.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 03/07/2019 11:42

I've just done a tabata mini workout for the first time in I don't know how long! I'm clearly feeling better Grin

Just did 8 sets of 20 seconds doing star jumps / jumping jacks (whatever you call them) as fast as I could with 10 seconds rest in between. Feeling nicely warm and out of breath right now. Might try and do that every day before I make my lunch when I'm working at home (would be at least 3 x a week)... feel like this is a positive step and only takes a few mins out of my day... am I right Bigchoc?

Pineappleunder · 03/07/2019 12:38

Thanks for the advice. I don't think it's a b2b as I had a NFD yesterday?
I like the idea of star jumps as a mini work out. If it gets crazy hot again I might well go down to the garage (where it stays cool) and do that!

OohMrDarcy · 03/07/2019 13:12

ah sorry pineapple - missed the NFD in between!

Tabata is a very specific type of workout - think there is more info in one of the links in the OP - worth having a read!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 13:49

That's excellent, MrD

HIIT Fast Blasts

Take a few mins per day, 3-5 days per week
To improve your fitness and your fat-burning metabolism

Choose an^ exercis^e, e.g.
Running, stationary bike set to low resistance, burpees, punchbag, step-ups, swimming, squats, lunges, pressups, tricep dips, situps, jumping jacks ... or any combination you like.

Then choose your type of Blast

MrD chose Tabata:

"Tabata" = 8 x intervals of
20 secs @ 100% effort + 10 secs recovery (rest or slow speed)

i.e. 20 secs full power, then 10 secs recovery, th

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 13:50

then 20 secs full power, then 10 secs .....

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:00

More info about Fat Blasts in the 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 OP

I'm licking my lips after an indulgent birthday lunch at my fav restaurant: Grin

A Mediteranean Flammkuchen (tarte flambé) wih feta, onion, tomato, craime fraiche etc and salad
followed by an apple, calvados & almond Flammkuchen

I'm keeping my usual Wednesday training program of fascia & flexibilty class this morning, with advanced weightlifting this evening
and I've done my usual 30 km cycling round trip commute,
but too hot for a Rhine walk

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:51

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🎺🎺 We have a NEW 5:2 / IF Thread #86 🎺🎺
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🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺

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