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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

968 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
dreichuplands · 25/06/2019 15:14

Okay, two years living in USA has done nothing for my waistline and I am carrying around 3/4 of a stone more than I want to. DH is also struggling. After pondering how to manage this I think this method is worth a shot.
First FD today.
So thinking about food more than normal.

orangeshoebox · 25/06/2019 18:17

kitchen closed at around 600

nothing all day apart from yogi tea and water, one cup of stock powder& hot water.
dinner was pasta with veg followed by kefir & frozen berries.

it was fine until neighbours started their bbq Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 25/06/2019 19:56

Hi everyone, I've been AWOL all week, to he honest I'm going through a pretty stressful time at the minute at work, plus having new kitchen next week so right now I don't know my arse from my elbow Shock last week wasn't good food wise, but kitchen closed today on about 650 so happy with that. Next fd I think Friday, but may be moved to thurs.

Hope everyone is going okay with it all, will try and log on a bit more but I'm literally just falling into bed at night at the moment after super busy days!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2019 20:10

Welcome, dreich Smile
and good luck on your 1st FD

Well done on your FDs, orange, 43

Despite that stress, you nailed it 43
Get as much sleep as you can

orange You can enjoy your own bbq tomorrow

OP posts:
KnittingForMittens · 25/06/2019 20:43

Can anybody recommend what I can eat that's filling and low cal? Unfortunately I am really not that keen on soup! I've tried tinned soups, homemade soups... I just can't take a liking to it! I don't mind tomato soup but I can only eat it with bread. Everyone seems to enjoy their homemade soup blitzed with plenty of veg but I don't like it :( I love veg, just not blended into soup! How weird does that sound? Blush

orangeshoebox · 25/06/2019 20:51

veg is your friend
a carrot salad (grated carrot, grated apple, lemon juice)
salad leaves with a teaspoon balsamic vinegar & herbs
roasted courgette

NightmareLoon · 25/06/2019 20:54

Knitting, tonight I had a vegetable curry (heavy on the cauliflower) topped with a poached egg. Yummy and not blended! (I was a pav bhaji recipe minus the pav (bread) and with reduced butter.

I also had a staff meal at lunch so had a scoop of chili and some strawberries.

Good fast day, anywhere between 550 and 650 kcal depending on that chili. Brisk walk then bed. :)

EssentialHummus · 25/06/2019 21:01

knitting I often have a big bowl of salad leaves, toms, cucumber, celery if you like it, carrot, maybe even a bit of tuna, and 2/3 spoons of low-cal dressing (mrd and I both like low-cal Caesar dressing).

claptomania · 25/06/2019 21:16

Evening all. Just checking in as not been on MN that much this week.

leukae hope you enjoyed your holiday - well done for getting straight back on it!
mittens same as hummus here - I need to eat 3 meals a day on FDs, albeit very small and carefully tracked ones.
dreich welcome - how did your first FD go?

Can't remember if I said this upthread but I've been confirmed as having a broken bone in my foot which means no weight bearing exercise for another four weeks. Apart from being incredibly inconvenient for life in general, I was doing 4/5 sessions a week at the gym prior to the injury, so will have to really watch what I'm eating.

Off to find some more non-impact exercise videos on Youtube. There seem to be lots!

Hope you find a way to avoid the heat bigchoc - looks like it's going to be horrendous.

KnittingForMittens · 25/06/2019 21:16

Thanks all. I think I will just literally chomp on plenty of vegetables on fast day and add protein like egg and chicken. I love pretty all sorts of salads and veg luckily :)

EssentialHummus · 25/06/2019 21:20

Ouch clap!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2019 21:33

Well done on your FD, loon

mittens My favourite FD meals are a protein - prawns / baked salmon / steak strips / chicken breast strips / boiled egg -
with a big mixed salad - leaves, peppers, tomato, onion, grated carrot, beetroot, cress -
dressed with lemon / balsamic vinegar

Stir fries are also excellent - one of the above proteins with masses of veg, also stir in an egg and I find I don't need a starchy carb.

I was going to ask how long until your broken foot heals, clap
Are you keeping up with the upper body and abs exercises we discussed ?

Yep, 40C is horrendous, as it is higher than body temp
So my cycling commute just blows hot air in my face, no relief there
Lots of SPF 50 all over, white T and shorts, a white sunhat with neck protector

Drinking loads of water and I also find mixing with apple juice helps hydration in this extreme heat
We did a yoga class this evening, no air con, but all static moves, relaxed slow pace

OP posts:
nolongersurprised · 25/06/2019 22:54

Can anybody recommend what I can eat that's filling and low cal?

Personally I have found that adding brown rice to protein and vege works for me. It feels like a “normal” meal and I’m not hungry when I go to bed.

FD2 here (Wednesday morning). School holidays and rainy so I don’t have work to distract me. I’ll see how I go!

Fillybuster · 25/06/2019 23:44

Kitchen closed at 10.30pm on 430cal - far too late to eat but life got complicated this evening. Was tempted not to have anything at all but worried I’d get cramps in the night!

Well done on everyone’s FDs. Clap, that sounds painful and frustrating - hope it starts healing quickly now it’s been diagnosed. BCF, I can’t believe you’re cycling in that heat!! 43, sending moral support your way...new kitchen is stressful and probably doesn’t make managing food easier whilst it’s going on and you can’t cook!!

Oranges, Dreich, well done Grin I normally like soup but find it too hard to eat on a FD, no idea why. But im happy to tuck into a massive bowl of steamed plain asparagus or sprouting broccoli - in fact, dipping asparagus into a soft boiled egg does not leave me feeling like I’m missing out on anything at all Grin. As well as all the great recipes in BCFs post at the head of the thread, I also make a huge pot of shakshuka, which is basically a spicy tomato, onion & pepper sauce (I add aubergine, courgette, whatever), in which you poach a couple of eggs. Incredibly filling & you can make 4-6 portions with about a teaspoon of vegetable oil, and that’s the only fat.

KnittingForMittens · 26/06/2019 07:12

@BigChocFrenzy
Thank you for your suggestions! I really appreciate it and a mixed array of them vegetables sound right up my street!

@nolongersurprised
Thank you as well. I quite like brown rice but the household doesn't so I will probably just get a microwave one. I do feel like I need carbs but I think if I bulk out on the veg it may compensate that

FatandSassy · 26/06/2019 08:18

Morning all. Second FD of the week here and really looking forward to it - thanks to the scales the yesterday so is my man.. I did tell him not to weigh but he's happy so whatever. It's all good. Good luck to everyone fasting today Smile

mimiasovitch · 26/06/2019 09:45

Morning all. Been off on holiday where I ate like I was stockpiling for a cold winter, but the scale damage was 3lb on, which I can live with. Went straight into a fd which was really hard until I actually ate something (rather than holding off as long as I could), And ended up at about 550. Regular day yesterday, but forgot to calorie count. Was completely exhausted thanks to the running around all day getting dd2 ready for prom, picking her up at 11 to take her to the afterparty, and then getting woken up at 4 where she was sobbing in a field as her friends had gone off with their boyfriends and she couldn't get in her tent. So, exhausted and cross with her 'friends'. I drank a lot of coffee yesterday! Another fast today - should be ok as I'm working tonight, and that always makes it easier for me.

Good luck to all the fasters today.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/06/2019 12:17

Hooray, the janitor is fitting my air con atm !
His work is meticulous and clean, so no clearing up needed aftewards

43 Not long until your lovely new kitchen is fitted, then you can relax about cooking

Well done on your FD, filly, mimia

Good luck surprised, sassy

mittens Rye bread or 100% wholegrain / wholemeal bread are alternateíve options for a filling carb

Also, Mosely recommends having beans (not baked beans !), lentils, peas often as these have been proven to help stabilise blood sugar
They contain a fair amount of carbs, but also lots of fibre, which is why they are so filling

OP posts:
KnittingForMittens · 26/06/2019 12:28

@BigChocFrenzy thank you! I will pop that on my shopping list and pick some up the next time I go :) I have just had a Tetley herbal tea which contains Vitamin B6. I don't usually like herbal teas but this one wasn't too bad! I have to drink something hot in the mornings so tomorrow will be my next fasting day when I am at work. I am going to prep my meals and make sure I eat enough salads and protein as my job is quite strenuous. I am unable to fit my fast days around the days I am off as my shifts vary each week :(

Fillybuster · 26/06/2019 12:34

Glad to hear you’re going to be able to keep cool BigChoc - I can’t imagine coping with 40 degree heat without air con!

Since it’s 12.30 I’m thinking about doing a b2b and rolling on from yesterday’s FD. Have a bit of a headache but hopefully coffee and water will help with that. Crazy day at work, with solid meetings until this evening, then a scary HIIT class at the gym, so no actual time to eat - so let’s see if I can ignore the twix on my desk!

EssentialHummus · 26/06/2019 12:36

Filly, can you give it away or “lend” Grin it for the day?

Fillybuster · 26/06/2019 12:49

Hummus, it’s a somewhat squished, single finger “fun size” bar that I nicked from one of my dcs for emergencies. I’m not sure anyone would take it, even if I offered! On the plus side, I think it’s only about 80cals according to MFP!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/06/2019 12:56

hummus, filly Choc should be hidden in a drawer you don't normally open
Giving it away .... only to someone you love ! Grin

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 26/06/2019 14:37

I’ve never tried to do b2b FDs before & finding it surprisingly hard. Maybe not helped by the fact I only ate 350ish Cals yesterday?

Have now had a hard boiled egg & some plain lettuce (& my two teaspoons of marmite - yum!) and feel a bit better but not sure i can make it through the rest of the work day plus my gym class and then stick to just another 400 Cals. Might have to write this one off and start again tomorrow!

claptomania · 26/06/2019 14:51

B2Bs sound hard filly! Good luck if you're still going - but I do recall reading upthread somewhere that if you are doing B2B, best to slightly up your calorie count so that you don't fall over, etc.

I was going to ask how long until your broken foot heals, clap
Are you keeping up with the upper body and abs exercises we discussed ?

As much as possible. I'm trying to squeeze in a session most evenings after the kids are in bed. Found an excellent youtube channel dedicated to hurt foot workouts, so am able to rotate core with arm/back strength exercises.

FD for me here. Really enjoying a bit of lemon and ginger tea in this warm weather.