Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

968 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
KnittingForMittens · 28/06/2019 06:14

@BigChocFrenzy that's good! It did fill me up and kept me going through the rest of the night :)

Sorry for all the questions... BUT, on fasting days I do not have anything at all containing sugar except for 85%+ dark chocolate (couple of squares), however on NFD, can I have 1 sugar in my tea and coffee? I have tried to have tea and coffee without sugar but it tastes awful and I love having a hot drink in the morning! On FD I just have vitamin boosting herbal tea, but NFD I have tea and coffee with 1 lvl tsp sugar in about 3x a day.

KnittingForMittens · 28/06/2019 06:20

Thanks @Fillybuster I did think I was being a bit dramatic over 70cal! It's not like I ended up having a takeaway Grin I'm not even craving for one.... touch wood!

OohMrDarcy · 28/06/2019 06:45

Morning all,

Weighed in this morning at 14st 10.4lb which is a loss of 1.8lb this week and takes my total loss to 3st 2lb. Pretty happy with that, especially as was expecting a smaller loss after last week 🎉

KnittingForMittens · 28/06/2019 06:48

Fantastic @OohMrDarcy ! That's an amazing achievement! My weigh day is tomorrow morning and I am dreading it Blush even though I have stuck to it and have eaten proper, nutritious and home cooked meals, limited snacks in between on NFD.

orangeshoebox · 28/06/2019 06:56

fd today.
had a cup of tea so far and licked off the spoon of yoghurt for dc's breakfast.
dinner will be chicken & veg

BigChocFrenzy · 28/06/2019 11:05

Congratulations on your SV, MrD
Your next big milestones are 50lb loss and getting in the 13 stone somethings !

Good luck, Orange
and any other Friday fasters

Never worry about asking questions Mittens Smile

If 1 teasp per day sugar or sweetener makes this WOE sustainable, then don't worry about it

However, if it is a few drinks, or if you are really keen to optimise your results,
then
try having drinks on FD without sugar if you can
It helps to cut to ½ teasp on NFDs too, to retrain your sweet tooth

Rooibos tea is very healthy and naturally a bit sweet, but has nothing added - try that ?

I was like you in that I hated unsweetened hot drinks, but I pefsisted for weeks and suddenly it clicked

I also cut out sugary or artifically flavoured fizzy crap,
after reseach into what that tends to do longterm to stomach flora, kidneys and biney

Also on FDs, try 90% choc, e.g. 90% Lindt Mild Excellence, which has very little sugar
or cut down to 1 square of the 85% choc - again to retrain taste buds

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 28/06/2019 11:08

"stomach flora, kidneys and biney" - biney ?
< eyes iPad suspiciously > BONES !Grin

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 28/06/2019 11:45

Good luck Orange - and 43 if you're fasting?

I'm off camping tonight - hoping not to come back and then be ill for 2 months again! Grin
Got my meals planned - 90% healthy with some treats as well. Really looking forward to it after feeling crap for so long! Just me and a friend again so there will be plenty of walking, reading and relaxing in the sun.

Hope everyone is drinking plenty of water in this heat - assuming most if not all of us are at least somewhere in Europe which is pretty much all experiencing varying levels of heat wave!

KnittingForMittens · 28/06/2019 11:57

Fabulous, thank you @BigChocFrenzy again for your amazing help and advice! I did look for the 90% chocolate but couldn't find it anywhere :( I am going to try having half a tsp of sugar in my coffee shortly and make my tastebuds adjust to that.

So far all has been well! I had a seeded bun toasted then spreader marmite all over it, topped with mature cheddar cheese and melted under grill. Grin had a banana after

For lunch I had chicken breast with my homemade katsu curry sauce (Gizzi Erskine recipe), omit the oil and it is very low calories consisting of just carrots, onion, stock, soy sauce and a bit of sugar (replaces with sweetener), a small side of boiled rice (around 2 heaped TBSP)

Tonight for tea is chili con carne stuffed peppers and baked in oven :)

I'm really enjoying this way of eating! Makes me happy.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/06/2019 12:24

Enjoy your camping trip, MrD
It sounds great fun with your pal and you have planned it so well

That's a sensible, healthy menu for the day, Mittens and very tasty
Sounds like you have really got into the fasting swing and are developing healthy habits for the longterm too

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 28/06/2019 13:48

Well done mrD!!

BigChocFrenzy · 28/06/2019 15:34

It's only 28C here - seems really cool after 40C Grin
Weekend 35-38C, then a more normal summer week of 25-30C, which will be bliss

How are you doing hummus - FD ?

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 28/06/2019 16:20

Nfd for me bigchoc, though the temperature is on the rise here in London so plenty of frozen water on the go!

dreichuplands · 28/06/2019 17:21

I've survived first two FD. Yesterday was easier than the first day, mostly I think because I ate more protein during FD.

KnittingForMittens · 28/06/2019 17:23

@dreichuplands good on you! I've been doing well because it is weigh day tomorrow. I'm currently enjoying a glass of lager and lemonade (sugar free). Tomorrow is going to be 35C apparently (UK) 😥

dreichuplands · 28/06/2019 17:27

It is going to peak at 31 today but we will have thunderstorms and we also have air conditioning everywhere so nothing like London.

orangeshoebox · 28/06/2019 18:53

kitchen closed at, erm no idea (2 home made pancakes with banana & a smear of peanut butter)

it felt really cold today, even though at 25 degrees it was a bit warmer than yesterday.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/06/2019 21:11

Well done on your FD, Orange, dreich

hummus We'll keep glugging iced water together

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 28/06/2019 21:36

All set up in my camp here. We have picked a lovely secluded spot so really peaceful. Had a stir fry for dinner and was delicious but couldn't finish it all!

Well done to everyone who has fasted today and good luck for those weighing in in the morning! I'll be back Sunday

Fillybuster · 28/06/2019 23:55

Well done Oranges and Dreich - glad this one was easier for you.

MrD - wow, wow, wow Shock - that’s amazing! Have a wonderful weekend camping and take care of yourself.....no more getting ill!

BigChoc, glad things are a little cooler for you, as that was sounding scary! London is going to be something like 35 tomorrow - eek. It’s a NFD, and we’re having a bbq for lunch; I’m trying so hard to stick to TDEE on my NFDs, so hoping that lots of iced water, and heat, and lots and lots of lovely cold cucumber, will help me avoid overeating during the day. Today was good, right up until dinner, when I gave in and had some of the family chips, and then a few more, and then....sigh. Shame, as the scales were finally moving in the right direction this morning (10.0.04!!) but I think the chips (& fish, and dessert....) might have tipped it all back up by tomorrow.
Hope everyone has lovely weekends and gets to enjoy the sunshine Grin

KnittingForMittens · 29/06/2019 06:20

Weigh day......

IVE LOST 7LB!!!

I cannot actually believe it! I'm actually due on AF any day now and still managed to shed the pounds. I've really got a massive spring in my step today and just WISHED I'd done this diet a long time ago!

Hope everyone has a fab day today and a good day on plan too Grin

buginarug · 29/06/2019 08:07

Mittens that's amazing - no wonder you have a spring in your step! Well done!

I'm lighter too - 4lbs down this week. Very happy.

Have a great day in the sunshine everyone and good luck to anyone fasting Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 29/06/2019 09:36

Congratulations, mittens and buginarug
Fab start for both of you

Try to keep good habits this weekend - NHS alcohol limits, no snacking, lots of water - so you start your next week all ready to fire away more bodyfat

Enjoy your camping weekend, MrD
It's lovely to chill in the countryside with a good pal and delic food.

filly, hummus I've several packs of still & fizzy water stacked up like a shop Grin, a giant US fridge / freezer, also SPF50,
so I'm well prepped for the weekend heatwave

I woke up early enough for a Rhine walk while it was cool enough

Currently lazing, enjoying my new aircon and later I'll have the 12 pm luxurious brunch at my fav Rhine cafe
Lots of people and boats of all sizes, some vair swish, out on the river

Spin class this afternoon

OP posts:
KnittingForMittens · 29/06/2019 13:49

@buginarug well done! That's brilliant. It's all heading in the right direction! And thanks @BigChocFrenzy . It is 32C here today! I'm drinking loads of water. I skipped breakfast and I've only had 2 slices of toast, some grapes, pea snacks and a skyr yogurt. I'm still full up! Drinking lots of water has helped with that for sure.

Fillybuster · 29/06/2019 21:20

Amazing results Mittens and Bug - well done both of you!!

Just had a cold shower and I’m hot all over again....and it’s 9.15pm! Bbq for lunch (1 sausage, 2 bits of chicken, 1 beer and lots of salad), a small scoop of ben and Jerry’s (low cal version, bought by mistake) for dessert, and lots of gardening and water all afternoon. I’ve made about a zillion different salads for dinner tonight - left it out like a buffet for the dcs first - so hopefully should manage to stick to tdee today if I avoid the crisps when watching tv with dh this evening
Hope everyone is surviving the heat Smile - glad you got your a/c sorted in time BigChoc!