Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

968 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 19/06/2019 22:04

Admiring your active holiday, granny

  • but ideally go in Spring or Autumn next time
OP posts:
GrannyPenny · 20/06/2019 09:00

FD went okay, had a bit of a wobble around 5 p.m. when my concentration dropped to the floor trying to gather my thoughts together for a report I was writing, but other than that was fine.

I think aiming for 800 on FDs but with the option to cut some of the calories out will work for me psychologically as long as I keep around TDEE for remainder of the week. Yesterday came in at just under 600 as I didn't feel hungry enough to need to eat any more than that.

Sun is shining here this morning and a nice temperature. Hoping it lasts a while!

How is your little one today MrD?

claptomania · 20/06/2019 09:42

The Rhine valley is gorgeous! Lucky you. I’d happily live in much of Germany.

Sounds like a realistic plan Granny. I came in around 600 too, which is what I was aiming for.

Highly recommend the tabbouleh made with cauliflower btw (blitzed cauli toasted in pan,
oil not required, plus bit of veg stock, chopped mint, parsley and tomatoes). It makes a massive, tasty and low cal side.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/06/2019 09:52

Well done on your FDs, Granny, clap
especially on powering through your 5pm wobble granny

That FD recipe sounds healthy and filling, clap

OP posts:
LeukaeLucky · 20/06/2019 17:03

Forgot I was going away tomorrow and Friday is normally my fd so closing the kitchen for today at 620 cal and counting it as my FD
Did aqua gym and long walk

Fillybuster · 20/06/2019 18:24

Well done Granny & Clap on yesterday, and Leukae on today!

Reporting in (late, cos I didn’t get a chance to post earlier) for FD duty. Scales still stuck at 10.3, despite a full FD Monday, only dinner on Tuesday, and a fairly controlled NFD yesterday....ggrrr!

Dh suggested I skip weighing myself for a week or so, but I don’t think I’ve got enough faith in myself to do that. Has anyone else broken away from the tyranny of the bathroom scales?

Normally I like to see the progress, but right now it’s just increasingly frustrating!

Off to the gym for a 45 min HIIT legs/abs class, then veg tagine for dinner.

Clap - is there an actual recipe for that cauli cous cous? I’ve got a spare cauliflower looking for a purpose in life, but don’t want to start cooking blind when starving hungry!

Pineappleunder · 20/06/2019 20:01

Successful and relatively pain-free fast day done. I need to now get a couple of not too indulgent NFD under my belt. Starts with circuits tomorrow which I am dreading!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/06/2019 20:13

Well done on your FDs, lucky, pineapple

filly Have you tried a week on mfping absolutely everything ?
Do you eat back exercise calories ?

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 20/06/2019 20:24

Well done Pineapple - and good luck with the circuits!!

BigChoc - thanks for asking. I don’t eat back exercise calories, and am trying to MFP but finding it hard when things aren’t on there....for example, I had a salad from chop’d for lunch yesterday with lentils, green beans, broccoli, hot smoked salmon and an egg, on a base of leaves, with a small amount (unknown) of pesto. How should I go about entering that? I’ve been adding up everything when I can - my main lesson has been how quickly I can get through my TDEE unless I’m super careful, but I definitely stayed below it on Tuesday and didn’t exceed it much yesterday (salad as above for lunch with small piece of cake, dinner was sub 400 Cals, plus 1.5 glasses wine). Unless I’m massively miscalculating...?

claptomania · 20/06/2019 20:40

Not really a recipe filly, sort of made it up. I'm not a measured quantities sort of cook (and hence a terrible baker) - but it was about this for one portion:

  • 1/3 head medium cauliflower, blitzed up to make couscous texture
  • Dry fry in pan until it starts to brown/toast
  • Make up some quite concentrated veg bouillon stock and pour in - mix thoroughly
  • Decant and leave to cool to room temperature
  • Stir in chopped tomatoes, a squeeze of lemon and the herbs - a good big handful each of mint and parsley

I had it on the side of a bit of harissa-covered salmon and it was pretty good!

Fillybuster · 20/06/2019 22:07

Thanks Clap - I’m happy to cook with those instructions Grin Sounds delicious so am looking forward to giving it a shot: will report back Smile

Closing today’s FD out on 526 and a mint tea. Good luck to everyone fasting tomorrow

Fillybuster · 20/06/2019 23:30

Had to share this [[https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3615066-AIBU-to-tell-you-that-you-don-t-need-to-be-unhappy-with-your-body?reverse=1
thread]] here, just for some of the hilarious responses to the OP. Off to do some lunges on my way to bed...

OohMrDarcy · 21/06/2019 07:22

Morning all, yesterday was an unintentional FD here after either getting a bit of DS' bug or eating something that didn't agree with me. 24hrs of stomach cramps and managing nothing but water and a few polos which would help for a few mins at a time! Feeling considerably better this morning so have weighed in and am showing as 14st 12.2lb which is a loss of bang on 2lb for the week. Obviously I will need to be very careful over the weekend to make sure it stays off, but ok with that.

Total weight loss is now 3st 0.2lb 🎉

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2019 09:21

Well done on your FD, filly

Sorry to hear about your upset tum, MrD
Best to be careful today & this weekend anyway, in case you set it off again

Next week, you might sts if yesterday involved D&V, because that kind of loss tends not to be "real"

  • 1lb of the 2lb might be due to that
OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 21/06/2019 09:24

No d&v just couldn't face food, but definitely aware it might not be a true reflection!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2019 09:28

From the title, I asumed that thread filly linked would be about women not needing to be ashamed if they are overweight

Oh dear.

OP posts:
LeukaeLucky · 21/06/2019 11:37

Good morning
I'm on my way to Paris and will be back crying on Monday
Have a wonderful weekend everybody
X

cheesenpickles · 21/06/2019 13:08

Right healthy lifestyle kicked up a notch. Just switched our life insurance to Vitality for their health tracking stuff. That way we are majority inclined to keep active and get discounts. Didn't take enough cover for the Apple Watch but that's not a massive issue. Grin

OohMrDarcy · 21/06/2019 13:48

Have a fab time Leukae!

Cheese - what goodies do you get to earn??

BigChoc - I scanned a bit and thought the same!

cheesenpickles · 21/06/2019 13:58

Discounts on premiums, 40% gym membership that's rolling, free Starbucks, discounted trainers. Little bits and pierces really but the fact you can earn money off the premiums was big appeal.

Fillybuster · 21/06/2019 15:30

Sorry - I should have attached a health warning. I was very amused by some of the responses though!

Amazing results MrD Grin Not just this week’s but overall....wow!!!

Have fun in Paris Leukae - we’ll be here (quietly jealous!) for support when you get back Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2019 16:07

Enjoy your WE in Paris, lucky < Envy >

That's great motivation for healthy habits, cheese
Sounds a firm with bright ideas

OP posts:
KnittingForMittens · 21/06/2019 20:43

Hi all.

I am starting the 5:2 diet tomorrow! Just wanted to ask a question as I'm very new to this. On fast days, do you count your calories using MyFitnessPal or any other calorie app and do you weigh and measure your food and liquids just on fasting days? Other days, eat your standard 3 meals a day with small snacks? Thanks in advance

BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2019 08:12

Welcome, mittens 🙂

FD
500 cals / (600 for men)
If you have high TDEE (>2200) then 800 cals works too

No extra allowance for exercise calories on FDs

NFDs
Mosely strongly advises NO snacking between meals
Even "healthy" snacks - like nuts, fruit or the ubiquitous oatcakes - keep insulin raised and hinder fat burning
They also increase the total calories in a day

Have 2-4 meals, nothing between
If you can't manage that, then have only raw veg - e.g carrot, celery, cucumber - no dip, no sauce, no accompaniment

No need for most folk to count NFD calories,
but try to keep 5:2 healthy habits, even at weekends:

  • NHS alcohol limits - daily & weekly
  • NEVER snack / graze between meals,
  • have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
  • lots of water & veg
  • cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones
OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread