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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

968 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
claptomania · 22/06/2019 11:50

I had PruHealth/Vitality benefits with a previous employer. Mostly I enjoyed the (at the time) 50% off Virgin Active membership. Good programme on the whole!

Signing in for an uncharacteristically UNPLANNED fast day today. Husband is on dinner so will steer him towards some sort of protein with veg.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2019 14:42

Good luck, clap

OP posts:
KnittingForMittens · 22/06/2019 21:16

Thank you!

Today went well. I am debating whether to fast tomorrow or Monday! Will see how I am feeling tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2019 21:50

Well done on your 1st FD, mittens

OP posts:
LeukaeLucky · 23/06/2019 07:25

@BigChocFrenzy @OohMrDarcy thanks
The weather is gorgeous, the food incredible. I can't stop eating 😂😭 I've been literally full since the moment I arrived

KnittingForMittens · 23/06/2019 09:12

Fast day moved to tomorrow! A lot easier as my husband will be at work so he cannot tempt me to eat lunch when we go out lol.

EssentialHummus · 23/06/2019 18:35

Ooh, leu, sounds super!

Nice to see you on this thread mittens Smile.

Belated check in for a FD today. I didn’t realise my online grocery shopping was arriving at 8pm rather than 8am, so I’ve had an odd food day - baked beans with frozen veg for lunch, and a tin of veg soup for dinner. And coffees here and there. Has been fairly easy, which is nice! DH took DD out so I pottered in the garden and chilled a bit.

Good luck to the Monday fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/06/2019 18:38

Good luck, hummus
Not long to go (depending on your country !)

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EssentialHummus · 23/06/2019 18:58

Thanks bigchoc. I’m in the UK so it really isn’t long to go (though obviously I am now waiting up for that shopping!).

StarlingSong · 24/06/2019 03:17

Hello all, wondering if I can join this community for some support?

I started 5:2 in October 2018 at 81kg (12st11) and at my most recent weigh in (start June) was 71kg (11st3) which is a fantastic loss and I'm thrilled with it. I feel so much more comfortable in my body. Lurking on these threads and reading all of your posts and wisdom from BCF has been a big part of that success, so thank you for that.

I'm here now though because I've become frustrated with the rate of my loss and have strayed from my normal 5:2 lifestyle.

At the beginning I was losing around 1.5 to 2kg a month but now have been sitting in the 71-72kg range since May. My end goal is 61-63kg. I know I've self sabotaged a bit - I thought I could speed up my rate of loss by throwing OMAD (one meal a day) on top of my fast days but all that's done is make me binge eat and mess up any loss I may have seen. Have also been skipping my usual fast days and eating way too much sugar on NFDs and have generally lost my focus. I haven't weighed in the last few weeks because I'm sure I've gained back a few kilos.

So I'm here, recommitting to normal 5:2 and trying to keep it simple! I love this WOE because it's straightforward and sustainable long term IF you stick to your FDs! Also want to focus on cutting down to 2 sugary treats a week - it's been so easy to grab some choc every night after dinner on autopilot.

Hoping by posting on here I can stick to this again. Thanks for any and all advice and friendly support Smile

NightmareLoon · 24/06/2019 07:18

Hiya, joining in. I've read the whoooole thread and did a bit of 5:2 a couple of years ago. I enjoyed it, but my job then meant I ate lunch with others which didn't work well!

Anyways, I'm on for Tuesday and Thursday this week. I've been dieting for the last few months and I'm in the normal BMI range now so I'm hoping this will help me find my goal weight.

keepingthisasecret · 24/06/2019 07:23

Hi all! I am on my first fast day. I am really hoping I will not find it hard. I've planned to have lunch and dinner, and have already made homemade soup which works out 70cals per serving so that helps massively! Will have soup for lunch and a chicken salad with a bit of cheese for tea (maybe other way around). Plenty of housework to be getting on with so hopefully this should be a doddle.

OohMrDarcy · 24/06/2019 09:17

Morning all - looking at camping this weekend as it is going to be fab weather so have moved my usual fasting days to today and Thursday this week.

chicken and veggies for lunch, soup if needed for dinner today. Its very humid here so I'm drinking plenty of water too!

OohMrDarcy · 24/06/2019 09:28

welcome to Starling, Nightmare and keeping!

Keep on posting, these threads are a fantastic source of support and motivation.

FatandSassy · 24/06/2019 09:41

My boyfriend and I are starting this today. We're doing Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays as FDs and eating normally (within our usual restrictions, less meat, less fat etc) the rest of the time. I'm a slow loser usually so really hoping this will kickstart my metabolism.

We worked out our food for today and it'll be around the 600/650 mark.
Hello all Smile

Fillybuster · 24/06/2019 11:45

Welcome Mittens, Starling, Keeping, Nightmare & Sassy (....can’t bring to call you “Fat” so Sassy it will have to be!)

Have a good FD MrD. Where are you going camping?

Well done on yesterday Hummus. I wasnt planning to fast but ended up doing great until I was suckered into quarter of a Philadelphia sandwich (yum! & some cake at my youngest’s birthday party in the afternoon. That said, I made the cake and it really was bloody good, and I’m now away for work for a few days (so “I’ll have it tomorrow” didn’t fly), so not sorry I had some Grin Managed to exit the weekend at 10.1.6, pretty much the same as I went in, so holding steady (good) even if not actually losing weight (less good!). My main aim is not to bugger things up whilst traveling: I’ve already had a firm word with myself about not succumbing to the hotel breakfast tomorrow morning! - with FDs tomorrow and Thursday.

Leukae - are you back? How was it?

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2019 12:12

Welcome, Nightmare, secret 🙂

Good luck on your 1st FD, secret
Your soup sounds excellent

Good luck, MrD and to all the other Monday fasters

nightmare As you are already within normal BMI range, you rate of loss may be slower than average,
but stay focused & patient and you'll get to goal

Welcome, starling 🙂
A much better idea to resume 5:2

If you find you are still not losing, then you may need to retrain your "normal" eating on NFDs
One week of mfping absolutely everything you eat & drink would give a reality check - many 5:2ers have been shocked by how much they consume

mfp would highlight the areas you need to work on:
hidden calorie bombs, portion size, alcohol and sugar consumption etc

Also, check you are not eating bacck too many exereccise calories on NFDs

  • there is no extra allowed on FDs

Your experience with OMAD is quite usual:
it works for a while, but then stops - but in the meantime you've got used to a huge meal and maybe started a binge / fast cycle

(OMAD has worked quite well for huge male weightlifters, but they typically have a TDEE of 3-4000 even when not overweight,
so even with 1 huge meal, they continue to have a big daily deficit)

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2019 12:18

Welcome, sassy
and good luck on your first FD

Don't worry, sounds like you were well under TDEE, filly probably a miniFD
and fasting rarely works at a family birthday party, Wink

Enjoy your trip,
I hope you can have tasty alternatives to beige work food
If you keep to the 5:2 healthy habits, especially NHS daily alcohol limits and NO snacking between meals, that really helps sts

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 24/06/2019 13:25

Thanks BCF. Full disclosure: I had a full dinner with dh after my sandwich & cake moment...! But probably came in under or close to TDEE overall Grin

Beige food 1 & 2 avoided: substituted arrival pasties for some plain yoghurt then walked out on lunch (lots and lots of sandwiches & deep fried things), went for a 45 minute walk & picked up some fresh falafel, hummus & salad with a pita bread. Managed to leave half the pita & feeling quite full. Lots of jealous comments from everyone else about how much better my lunch looked...! I’ve got an apple & some melon for dessert, and some dark chocolate for emergencies in my bag Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2019 13:27

Good start, filly
and no wonder the others were envious of your light and tasty food

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EssentialHummus · 24/06/2019 13:36

Welcome Nightmare, secret, starling

That sounds lovely filly!

Day 2 of B2b here (unplanned - I woke up and felt keen to do it). Just sitting down to a stir fry with lots of ginger, chilli and spring onions among the veg. Not sure about dinner!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2019 13:51

Good luck, hummus
That stir fry sounds delicious

weather forecast is up to 41C this week !
( my area of Germany)
and we're still in June, no end in sight.
My cycle commute (30 km daily) and 5 days gym (no air con) will be tough
I have to get up v early for my Rhine walk to be tolerable

I've ordered air con to be fitted, but it'll take a while for it to arrive, as up to 80 million others in Germany had the same idea !

OP posts:
KnittingForMittens · 24/06/2019 14:12

I'm really struggling! I'm on a fast day. I've had a boiled egg and coffee for breakfast, chicken and veg for lunch and now waiting for dinner which will be soup. Never realised I'd be this ravenous but I am going to be very determined

Fillybuster · 24/06/2019 15:01

Mittens, the first few fast days can be tough. There’s some good advice on this thread about coping strategies: hot drinks (herbal tea, black coffee) and water helps, so might some cucumber or celery sticks if you get desperate. You will get used to it over time - I couldn’t stop thinking about food all day for my first few FDs, now I sail through (it’s my NFDs I find tough!). Can you find a way to distract yourself? I find going for a walk or to the gym can really help.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2019 15:31

mittens You sound determined Smile
As filly says, raw fibrous veg, e.g. carrots or celery - NO dip or sauce or other accompaniment - can help for very few calorie

What you can try next FD:
Almost all of us skip breakfast on FDs, just having black coffee
Many of us find that this reduces overall hunger

Or you can try what Mosely originally did, since he wanted to eat with his family:
skip lunch instead, so just breakfast & supper

OP posts: