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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:56

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Grin Welcome to 5:2 thread # 84 ! Grin

We’re a very friendly bunch, so pop in and join us
Post whenever you need advice or support, or just to tell us how you are doing

FAQs & tips in the OP

"HOW TO START" section includes:

  • Tips & FAQs
  • FD recipes, meal plans
  • Body Goal Visualisers
  • Calculators for TDEE, Body Fat, Frame Size, Ideal Weight Range, Daily Alcohol Units / Cals

"Scientific Evidence for Health & Fasting" is at the end of the OP and includes links to peer-reviewed science papers

🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴

OP posts:
boxlikeamarchhare · 01/03/2019 03:14

Popping in with my shiny new name for March even if I am not fasting this week. Thank you for the new thread BCF.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 03:29

< peers under shiny new hat & fake moustache > Aha it's box !

OP posts:
Earslaps · 01/03/2019 05:45

Marking my place as I eat my very early breakfast before heading to the gym.

I would say overnight oats are ok, no more. Will probably go with the smoothie next time. I'll find out in half an hour if breakfast has given me enough energy to get through the workout! Desperately trying to drink water but I'm rubbish at drinking first thing.

I'm guessing there won't be too many fasters on a Friday, so good luck for any weigh ins.

Earslaps · 01/03/2019 05:45

And thanks for new thread @BigChocFrenzy- very organised.

fiddletree · 01/03/2019 06:09

Thanks for the new thread, BigChoc - I do like a trumpet fanfare. Also - that was a fantastic explanation of how weight loss varies depending on age/insulin resistance, etc. I always feel there's so much 'woo' stuff around metabolism and weight loss, so I really appreciate how scientific your approach is.

Have a good workout, Earslaps. The level of discipline required for a morning workout is something I can't quite fathom at present, but I did do a boxing class last week. It was a bit intimidating, but I might try to go again soon...

EssentialHummus · 01/03/2019 07:12

All this middle of the night activity! Grin Morning everyone, signing in.

EssentialHummus · 01/03/2019 07:13

And thank you for the new thread bcf.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 07:40

Good luck to any Friday fasters and / or early exercisers Smile

Typical weekday: I've cycled 8km to work, sorted some stuff, then 8 km back
I'll do the same this afternoon.
It's a joy in decent weather; today ..... not so much

I make a big mug of herbal tea last thing at night, so it's cool to drink before I bike,

I've a 9:30 am strength & flexibilty class - I'm definitely not in earslaps league for early intense gym !

For early gym or jog, I usually have a double espresso or black coffee 10 mins before training

That helps mobilise bodyfat for burning as fuel

Sometimes though, like today, when the damn rain woke me up too early, I'm hungry
so I have a measured 30 portion of nuts, or hard cheese, or a small yoghurt drink

I have to measure out moreish things, or I find my head peering out of an empty packet ! Blush

OP posts:
SmallFastPenguin · 01/03/2019 07:43

Pleased my first comment on the new thread is to say I have lost 3lb this week.

IfAtFirstUDontSucceed · 01/03/2019 08:14

Thanks for the advice Earslaps and BigChoc
So interesting about how your body reacts to the alcohol!
Certainly getting me thinking about what I'm consuming, which is exactly what I need - retraining my brain towards food and drink!

OohMrDarcy · 01/03/2019 09:08

Morning all

Checking in for Friday FD here.

Thanks for the new thread BigChoc - loving the title Grin

Well done on the 3lb SV Penguin! Fab!

All you early birds make me feel tired!

I've always found the info on how alcohol reacts in the body really interesting - since learning that I rarely drink , save it for when I really want to celebrate something... definitely don't want it interfering with my weightloss!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/03/2019 09:16

morning everyone, thanks bcf for the new thread Smile
gah to being woken early by rain and ship horns though!

don'tsucceed I try and have a FD on a fri if I know I have plans etc on the weekend (and sometimes even bank some calories from my nfds), then I know I can relax a little more end enjoy Wine and food etc As others have said, you'll need to find your happy balance with this as for me its meant slower loss, but I've not felt deprived of a social life Smile

penguin fab SV, well done

I'm fasting too mrd we're quite often Friday fast buddies eh Grin

B = nowt except tea
L = chicken salad, sugar free jelly and a mandarin
D = probably soup and slices of cooked turkey or an omelette....

Good luck other Friday fasters....

Earslaps · 01/03/2019 09:54

I survived the 6.15am intense class- it was Blaze, my first ever session. It's actually really motivating to have the heart rate monitor on and see how hard you are working- I got up to 98% of my max heart rate and apparently burned just under 500 calories during the class- and all before most people have even had breakfast!

Really well done on your SV penguin!

Regarding alcohol, 5:2 definitely helps moderate it a lot- I only drink Friday and Saturday as I don't want alcohol on or before a FD. I noticed that without 5:2 the number of days I drink really affects my weight, as soon as alcohol starts creeping in during the week the number on the scales increases.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 14:38

Congratulations on your SV, Penguin
A great start for you on this new thread.

How's the FD going, MrD, 43 ?
I agree that a Friday FD is a good buffer before the weekend - it prevents a 3-night WE too.

Blaze looks a really high-power HIIT workout, earslaps
and you did really well if you lasted through all the intervals.
Your 98% max HR is excellent

Does your gym do all the fancy light effects shown in your link ? (Being visually disabled, I sadly have to avoid those, as I'm likely to trip over something !)
Let us know how your muscles feel tomorrow Wink

OP posts:
MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 01/03/2019 15:28

Hello all, hope it's ok to join in. I've done 5:2 before (about a year ago) and really enjoyed it but let it all lapse a bit over the last few months. Now that winter is over it's time to get serious about shifting the flab and feeling generally lighter, more energetic and happier!

I'm doing a Friday FD which so far has meant a cup of strong tea with a splash of milk and two cups of Bovril. This evening's meal is a lamb leg steak with asparagus and spinach - looking forward to it already Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 15:33

Welcome, Turban 🙂
the more, the merrier
Your FD menu sounds good
Let us know how it goes

OP posts:
Earslaps · 01/03/2019 16:55

Yes, BigChoc, lots of flashy lights. To be honest I didn't really notice them at the time as I was too busy focussing on my % on the board! I think it's just normal lights when you are moving between the stations though to avoid tripping!

Welcome Turban, I'm also a restarting 5:2er. Your evening meal sounds delicious! I am a HUUUUUUGE fan of all of those ingredients. I love asparagus but the wee smell after is so strong (possibly as I always eat large quantities of it!).

It's a NFD so I currently have a red kidney bean chocolate cake in the oven, we'll see if the family notice that there's anything different about it!

OohMrDarcy · 01/03/2019 18:01

Kitchen closed on 550 today, would have been a bit lower but couldn't resist another slice of halloumi with lunch.

Just sipping a cup of tea now and that's me done

Welcome Turban

Earslaps that HIIT sounds hardcore!

Earslaps · 01/03/2019 18:16

@OohMrDarcy I think a Friday fast is pretty hardcore!

Friday is my 'day off', AKA do the weekly shop plus errands and washing etc! Shopping on a FD would be tricky! Plus I like a nice meal and a glass of wine to finish off the week.

OohMrDarcy · 01/03/2019 18:24

Not for me, single parent so no OH to celebrate the weekend with, and stops me ordering a takeaway by accident that I generally don't even want!

PissPotPourri · 01/03/2019 18:32

Evening all. FD here too...
Still feeling bad with this cough and cold but not feeling particularly hungry so I thought I might as well fast. Of course DH says it's the 5:2 that's made me ill. He still has hang ups since my last attempt (quite some years ago) made me so hangry.
I've had soup for lunch anything some paleo chicken ready meal thing for tea. I never ever usually buy ready meals but it was on an Ocado flash sale ...
BCF out of interest, why do you specify hard cheese not soft cheese upthread? Is it because it's higher fat? I don't know whether to go higher fat on small snacks like that or lower calorie.
Thanks for the new thread btw

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/03/2019 18:38

Fd going well thanks bcf
We are twinnies today mrd as kitchen closed here too on 550 calcals Grin cup of tea later but that's it.

Welcome maud and good luck with it....

earslaps it's not that bad if I keep chanting the 5:2 mantra. Got the in laws over for dinner Shock so much wine will be consumed to get me through the ordeal.... then a nicer day on Sunday catching up with a friend whose birthday it is. So you'll see how I need to reign it in today in anticipation of the rest of the weekend!!

Good luck to anyone fasting over sat and sun, now that's hardcore Grin

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