5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Dinner was delicious

Now I can enjoy my weekend eating as I like, and will do another FD on Monday. Feels good to be back on it!

Well done on your 1st FD back, Maud

and on your FD too, MrD

Have you finished yours too, 43

pot For a quick breakfast I recommended hard cheese, partly because it's easier to cut off a chunk and hold in your fingers
but mainly because I consider hard cheeses generally provide better nutrition:

Hard cheeses are allowed to age for weeks / months / years, which gives lower carb content than soft cheeses, which may not be aged at all. or at most a few weeks.

They usually have more protein and calcium than soft cheese

Also, hard cheese has a longer shelf life, so you can keep a block for some time and slice off chunks every now & then.

for the new thread

Thanks for the birthday wishes! I had a lovely time :) dh & I are going out for a meal tomorrow & with that in mind I did a mini yesterday & a FD today - I should still come out with a tiny deficit despite cake.

Well done Penguin & I hope you start to feel better soon Pot.

Yes bcf thought I posted up thread about matching mrd for calories.....

Just been to tescos to get ingredients for the pear and ginger cake I want to make for pudding tomorrow, so bloody hard at this time on a fd not to shove wine and cheese and cake in the trolley

Ooh enjoy your birthday meal lanika

fortythree can you post the pear and ginger cake recipe? That sounds amazing.

earflaps I have a weakness for Friday night wine, although I worked yesterday evening so couldn’t and I’m pleased now (Saturday morning here) as I feel a bit more sprightly.

It won’t be a particularly healthy weekend, I’m meeting my sister tonight for her b/day and she’s excited about a pizza place and DH and I had Thai last night but we rarely have take aways and I did just have the tofu stir fry. I lost 600g last week and that was after last weekend where wine and choc tops were consumed so that’s heartening! I should be able to exercise, especially if I get up soon!

I am now 68.6, so nearly 7kg in total after 12 weeks and 4-5kg to go. I’m expecting it to slow down a bit but most of my old clothes fit again so I’m feeling like my “usual” self with a bit extra rather than an overweight imposter.

Sounds like you are making good choices though surprised and you've not long to go

There isn't really a recipe as it's my own bastardised version but this is what I do.... tinned pear halves line the bottom of a cake pan (it's an upside down cake so put them in so that nice rounded side will be on top when you turn it out) drizzle a little bit of the syrup from stem ginger over the pears. Weigh 3 large eggs then use same amount of caster sugar, butter and self raising flour and mix into smooth batter.... finely chop about 3 chunks of stem ginger and add to cake mix with a tsp of ground ginger and 1 tsp of mixed spice. Bake for 30 mins or until skewer comes out clean (my oven is fan so temp is about 160) leave to cool slightly, optional drizzle of stem ginger syrup when still warm.... mmmm mmmm mmm

Sunday afternoon is when I bake so I might try it then. Will fresh, very ripe pairs work, do you think? There’s some in the fruit bowl right now. I have 4 DC and baking doesn’t last long.

I still haven’t told my DH I’m doing 5:2. He excercises a lot when the DC are in bed and has a job where the hours can be unsociable so we frequently eat separately from each other during the week or something less meat based when the younger two are in bed. He must’ve noticed that I’d gained the weight but maybe had decided it was better not to say anything? We talk about everything else though. Women have noticed that I’ve lost weight

*pears, not pairs, obviously

Congratulations on your SV, surprised and your clothes NSV
That's excellent progress

Well done on your FD, 43
and the disciplined shopping on an FD !

Enjoy your dinner tomorrow, Lania

Fab SV surprised well done!

Saturday morning weigh in for me too... now 16st 5lb which means a 2.4lb loss this week and 1st 7.4lb total loss

Another very happy Darcy day.

We are having lazy dinner day today which will be IKEA meatballs with mash and the gravy and veg (done at home). But because I'm being good I'll plan it all in and make sure I still come in under tdee

Happy weekend all!

surprised yes fresh pears would work it's just that if I don't have any soft ones I always get tinned.... have you not told your dh because he wouldn't support? I guess it's an easy one to fit into family life though so he probably won't notice that. ...

Wow mrd that is amazing, what fantastic losses, you must be over the moon

So it's my 1 year anniversary of 5:2 today, I stepped on at exactly 14stone last year and this morning I am 11.9 so 33lbs in total.... still not quite at healthy bmi and ideally I want to get to 10.12 if I can (!), but I'm not beating myself up about it, I know I will get there on this WOL and the support of you nest of vipers

Hope everyone has an amazing weekend

Fantastic SV 43! Less than a stone from goal, oh how I'd love to be that close 🤣 creeping ever closer week by week though!

Amazing SVs MrD and 43. 🏅🏅🏅🏅🏅

43 - that’s fabulous - well done 🤩

Congrats on the SV MrD!

Hope everyone has a happy weekend 🙂

Congratulations on your 1-year 5:2 anniversary and a great SV, 43

Only 11 lb to goal and so close to healthy BMI
you know you can nail that
just go at your own pace

Congratulations on your SV, MrD
You sound very organised in your 5:2 system and you are losing at a good rate

It all adds up over the weeks & months
Stay focused, be patient, thn that'll be you posting as you near goal and you'll get there too

I'm fasting today.
Anyone else ?

I am planning to do 800 calories today BCF. I need to get back on it. I would really like to lose a dress size or two for a party at the beginning of June.

I haven’t eaten anything yet and am just about to go for a four mile walk. I am really enjoying walking more and have found some new local walks.

When H finally disappears for good in a few days I will be walking the dog before work, generally walking to work, home at lunchtime to visit the dog, back to work and home again plus a short evening dog walk ... I will be walked out! The only thing that will stop that is time constraints if I need to be quicker on the odd day when I will 🚲 or 🚗.

Just had brunch of two soft-boiled eggs with asparagus for dipping, and a coffee. Didn't feel hungry after yesterday's FD until now.

Might be a payday takeaway tonight, though

Hi everyone I’m going to try a 16:8 diet.
My TDEE is 1907 so to make sure I have a calorie deficit would aiming for 1750 a day be ok?

surprised yes fresh pears would work it's just that if I don't have any soft ones I always get tinned.... have you not told your dh because he wouldn't support? I guess it's an easy one to fit into family life though so he probably won't notice that. ...

43No, he would be very supportive, I think. It was a combination of me not wishing to have that, “I’ve gained 10kg and I hate it” talk with him, not knowing whether it would work for me and not knowing if it’d be incompatible with family life and work. But I think it’s mainly embarrassment at having been overweight for the first time ever (except after babies). I hope that doesn’t sound tactless for those who have been overweight for longer, I know weight gain is complex and multi-factorial but I gained my weight by stuffing snacks into my mouth and I’m embarrassed by my lack of control

mrD your losses are so big!

surprised Your DH sounds like he would be supportive

imo the social pressures on women about weight are horrid,
so a helpful, sympathetic partener makes weight management so much easier.

The reasons why far more people - and many DC - are overweight now than before about 1980 is entirely down to the obesogenic environment that commercial pressures have developed over the last few decades

• not because there has been a drop in moral fibre

If there had been 24/7 fast food and cheap junk available when I was growing up (1950s - 1970s), often tailored to be additive,
then we would have had exactly the same problem of obesity then.

However, we had adequate food, with excess not available / affordable for most people - and snacks were not part of any traditional WOE.

Our bodies and their complex systems evolved over hundreds of millennia to cope with limited food and famines.

This is why most people can gain bodyfat - at least past their 20s - just by having slightly excess calories over time,
but find it much harder to lose weight with a similarly sized calorie deficit

It is a survival mechanism, but our bodies - and our minds - cannot evolve sufficiently quickly to cope with a rapid change in food availability and constant temptation

so noone should beat themselves up about being overweight:
50 years ago, the same you almost certainly would have been lean

sparkle You could try 16:8 / 14:10
14:10 is usually easier for women, since fasting is generally a little tougher for our bodies

Healthiest is probably the 12.12 that Mosely & some other fasting experts now recommend,
but keeping to his / our healthy rules re no snacks and limiting alcohol & treats etc

As I posted above, most people need quite a substantial deficit to lose:

Dr Michele Harvie - who developed the original b2b form of 5:2 - wrote in her book that
women usually need about a 500 daily deficit to lose
but that some (insulin-resistant) women need about 830 deficit on an ordinary mfp-type pure calorie reduction diet.

A daily limited time window with habits as above is usually more efficient than standard daily diets

• if you aim for the healthy guidelines above

So, you could start by averaging 1750 daily if you wish,
but you may find later with TDEE 1900 that you need to reduce to 1500-1600 to lose around 1 lb weekly

Hello everyone,

I'm in the kick start phase of the BSD/fast800 diet but am planning on moving over to the 5:2 version of this diet soon. So basically eating 800 calories on fast days then sticking to the low carb/Mediterranean diet on the other 5 days (probably limiting myself to 1600 calories on these days).

Would this thread be right for me or are you all doing the 500/600 calories version without the low carb element?

I did this low carb style of 5:2 last summer and lost 6 kg in six weeks so know it works for me. However this time I wanted to try out the fast800 to give my immune system a reset as well as a quick weight loss to get me started. Struggling with it though so might move to 5:2 sooner than initially planned.

Hello All,
Hoping that everyone's having a good Saturday and that it's stopped raining for you BCF. Well done on your fantastic results 43 and MrD.🥳🥳

Regarding F800 and 5:2 Sparkle, I can tell you how I'm working it. I do 2 FDs at 500 and then, on the others, I stick as closely as I can to the med diet.

As time has passed by and I have turned away from snacking, I've found I've automatically eaten much less carbs. Now, I've realised that I'm far less hungrier than I used to be and can see how I was caught in a viscous cycle. Snacking on carbs increased my hunger, which led either to more snacking or to hunger pains.

Because those things have really decreased, in a general way of taking care of myself, I've decided to continue on low carbs. It seems to be making my life much easier right now. And, fingers crossed, will help with my weight loss.
🤞