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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Earslaps · 02/05/2019 09:16

Wednesday fast went well- held out until 5pm then giant bowl of soy pasta (157 calories, 11g fibre and 20g protein per serving) with onion, butternut squash and spinach. Then my usual dark chocolate. Managed 20,000 steps too!

1lb down this morning, plus two people in the last two days have said I look slimmer. I reckon about a month more of 5:2 will do it then on to 6:1.

Good luck all Thursday fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/05/2019 09:49

Welcome back, green
I know it's a shock when you first move abroad - been there
If you can cook simple meals it's easier, because the same ready meals probably won't be there

ernie Sorry , on Fast800 no rice cakes and no oat cakes either, as they are not just pure oats.
No readymade baked goods
Mosely gives a couple of recipes with almond flour in his book

Cottage cheese is Ok - so long as it doesn't have pineapple or anything except herbs added.
So is Skyr yoghurt, because it is high protein & low carb - so long as it is not flavoured
They are basically the lean protein in your meal.

However, Mosely recommends full-fat in most things, e.g. full-fat Greek yoghurt , for the lower GI and staying full longer, full-fat hard cheese

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/05/2019 09:54

ernie For the turkey steaks - or anything else - do NOT add sugar on Fast800
or honey, agave syrup, maple syrup etc
Keep it savoury, with spices & a little oil - measure out the oil so you can count the cals

Well done on your SV, FD and compliments milestone, earslaps
Good progress

Good choice of FD, alltalk as it cuts out one alcohol day

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 02/05/2019 13:28

Afternoon all

Just checking in here - NFD for me, Fasting tomorrow.

Lots of fab positivity going on - love it.

Welcome back green!

erniewise · 02/05/2019 17:11

Lol Chocfrenzy, don't worry, I knew I couldn't have sugar!! I'm totting up what I've left for today calorie wise but might make a mushroom and spinach sauce with some cream cheese, stock and lemon juice to go with the turkey steaks. They are so very dull on their own. 😴

alltalknobaby · 02/05/2019 18:32

Kitchen closed on just over 700 cals today, I didn't find it too hard once I'd had lunch, strange for me. Maybe my body is adjusting.

Going to have a peppermint tea and an early night.

Hope other Thursday fasters have done okay today 👍🏻

BigChocFrenzy · 02/05/2019 18:55

Well done, Alltalk

ernie Spices are your friend on Fast800 Smile

How's the NFD going, MrD - any walks today ?

OP posts:
alltalknobaby · 02/05/2019 19:23

Keep meaning to say Ernie you're doing so well, the Fast800 seems hardcore 💪🏻

EssentialHummus · 02/05/2019 20:15

Well done ear, all, ernie!

Kitchen closed here; I'm just having my last decaf coffee. The usual ready meal and pile of veg at lunchtime, rice cake with jam as a "dessert", then just coffee. Around 550 cals for the day I think.

greenelephantscarf · 02/05/2019 20:48

kitchen closed at around 800, a good mini to start. next fd on monday.

OohMrDarcy · 02/05/2019 21:29

No walks today bigchoc unless you count to the polling booth! Grin looking forward to my camping weekend though and will be getting lots of lovely walks in then !

It's looking like it's going to be blinking cold overnight mind, so I've got some base layers to help me stay thawed out! Those plus copious amounts of tea should keep me going!

Well done on the FDs all, I'm in for tomorrow and we shall be having a lovely beef casserole (DC will have roasties with theirs). And I shall make enough so I can have leftovers at the campsite with some crusty bread, yum.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/05/2019 22:06

Well done, ernie, hummus, green

You're back in the fasting swing, green

Your FD prepping is impressive, MrD
You clearly have a good system with the DC

OP posts:
erniewise · 02/05/2019 22:48

Day 4 done and went about 50 cals over as added up wrong. I'm sure it'll be fine. I'm a bit shocked that I've gone 4 whole days without my beloved bread, pasta, rice, potatoes etc. Cravings have been manageable, hunger has waned but I'm worried about the weekend. I love my wine and love cooking fancy dinners...How does everyone else cope? Is there such a thing as 2:5 i.e. 2 days not fasting? Asking for a friend lol!

erniewise · 02/05/2019 23:04

Oh it's allowed! I checked the book!
" If you are finding the diet too tough… If, for example, you are having frequent lapses, you may want to consider slowing things down a bit: Some people find it easier to do 2:5. You fast during the week and eat healthily at the weekend without worrying too much about the calories (but sticking to the principles of the Med diet). "

nolongersurprised · 03/05/2019 01:58

Friday morning here and had my second FD yesterday, it wasn’t my best, unlike the freakishly easy Tuesday but it was OK. Probably about 600cal which is good for me.

I am still 65.1, so the same as last week, 1.1kg to go (10.4 lost). I wasn’t expecting a loss, I’ve had 2 reasonable ones over the last few weeks and my body seems to need a 3 week regroup every now and then.

Good luck to the Friday fasters.

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 03/05/2019 07:02

FD for me today. Looking forward to it, oddly! I ate quite a lot of beige food yesterday and definitely feel sluggish and blah this morning, even though I had no booze and slept well.

At the risk of sounding a bit woo, I do think this WOE is good at putting me 'in touch with my body'. I can definitely notice the difference in how I feel before and after FDs (and I don't just mean hunger!)

Good luck Friday fasters!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/05/2019 08:32

morning everyone, finally caught up on the thread, it has been a super hectic week!!!

Welcome back green

Oh that's frustrating essential but keep going and you will break through that plateau (i've done it twice)

Well done all the thurs fasters Smile

enjoy your camping trip mrd hope it doesn't get too cold at night for you

ernie i wouldn't worry about those 50cals, I often go over by 50ish cals....

Fd here too maud, good luck with it!!! Going out with a friend tomorrow for cocktails and a catch up, not eating though so only have to worry about alcohol consumption, I will eat lightly in anticipation of it Grin but not too lightly so first drink makes me squiffy!!!

Have a good day everyone, someone on my corridor has just made toast and it smells divine Envy

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 09:00

Well done on your FD, surprised
As you are only 1kg from goal - and probably well within healthy BMI - progress will be slow,
so sts most weeks is qquite normal

Good luck, 43, Maud

ernie Yep, you can ease off a bit on Fast800 if you want to 2:5 it.
It's better to accept slightly slower loss, if that means a sustainable system with a couple of days to relax more

BUT, do keep to the Mediteranean Low Carb - no starchy carbs or sugar, no alcohol - just increase calories to about your TDEE

It`s important on Fast800 - as with all low carb diets - to keep to the low carb part, so you stay in ketosis.
Othewise, you lose not just those 2 days each week, but another 2 during which your body has to burn off all the carb stores - instead of bodyfat - and get back into ketosis

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/05/2019 09:18

forgot to say well done on your sv ears Smile

OohMrDarcy · 03/05/2019 09:25

Morning all

checking in for my Friday FD - looks like a busy one with lots of buddies!

43 - hope you have a fab time at your cocktails, only a few mind I'm sure Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 09:31

Good luck, MrD

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:17

🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺

.

🎺🎺 We have a NEW 5:2 / IF Thread #85 🎺🎺
.

🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/05/2019 10:21

of course mrd

Thanks for the new thread bcf Smile

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