5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Had friends to stay this weekend who are vegetarian and barely drink
so I'm in a good place this week

Welcome back, scruffy
Not long to go and then you'll have nailed this FD

penguin Your friend sounds very ignorant about nutrition and the human body.
She may know about the practical side of low carb, but wouldn't be spouting that woo rubbish about the liver & toxins if she actually knew any relevant science

What can overload & damage your liver - on any diet or none - is too much booze and / or sugary junk over the years.
Not fasting.

For NFDs, choose whatever system makes you more likely to stay within sensible bounds
Do you find that having a buffer for weekends relaxes you, or does it make you more likely to binge ?
Only you know that for your individual case.

@SmallFastPenguin like Big Choc says, it's up to you whether you have lean weeks so you can relax on weekends, or whether you stick to TDEE all week other than FD.

But, until your appetite has adjusted and you are in the healthy habits of no snacking and no over indulging- COUNT EVERYTHING.

If you log everything for a few weeks you'll be able to see whether you are mainly sticking to your TDEE or over shooting. It will give you an idea of how much you can eat and stay loosing.

Once you're in the swing of it you'll probably find you don't need to count, but you can go back to it if you find your loss slowing down.

Took a sip of red wine this evening before I remembered I was fasting . However I gave the glass to dp before I had any more!

Dinner was spag bol with cabbage instead of spag. A smaller portion than I would usually have as I do think my portions have got a bit out of whack. I live with three strapping six-foot men (dp, ds, df) and slowly but surely my portions have ended up matching theirs...I think this could be a contributing factor to my weight gain!

I need to keep reminding myself that a 40-something perimenopausal woman does not need to eat the same amount as a lanky 6ft teenage boy

blossom wishing you a very speedy recovery

Checking in at the end of a FD, hopefully with a b2b tomorrow. Just coffee with teeny splashes of milk today (x3), then 383 calorie ready meal with a heap of broccoli, 10 calorie jelly and a little After Eight square (25 calories).

talk I need friends like that!

Welcome back scruffy

Well done on your FDs, Hummus, Maud

That's right, Maud
Many women gain weight when they move in with a male partner and naturally start to eat similar portions to him.
You are living wih 3 tall blokes, so it's even easier to fall into that trap.

It might be instructive to calculate the TDEE of say your OH and compare it to your TDEE at goal weight
Longterm, that's the difference you need to maintain in intake

My dh tdee is about 1000cals more than mine. I hate that so unfair!

jumping in mid conversation (so as to mark space on new board - 3rd page already!!) but some people react to pulses differently. I know that my diabetic father has to avoid beans as his body treats them like sugar.

Morning all. Feeling a bit washed out today, don't know whether yesterday's (very busy) FD has left me a bit drained. It does take a bit of time to get used to them, doesn't it?

The good news is, if course, that I can eat 'normally' today! I'm away for work stuff until tomorrow evening so will do my next FD on Friday. Will have to avoid the temptations of the motorway services though

Morning everyone!

Blossom those sound like very painful injuries- I wish you a speedy recovery!

Well done everyone on successful fast days yesterday and any SVs.

Every day is a 800 cal FD for me for these first 8 weeks but I think I'm coping ok. Haven't cheated once since starting last Monday and jumped on the scales this morning to another lb off making that 12 lbs in total...super motivation.

Now to survive Pancake Tuesday! Making them with the kids in school and then my DS when I get home so had to go to the shop and buy all sorts of yummy toppings yesterday. I am determined not to undo any of my hard work by letting any of them cross my lips!

Hope everyone has a successful day!

Hello everyone, well done disillusioned that is fab!

FD here, I had an appalling food day yesterday, not necessarily calorie intake but nutritionally. An egg mayonnaise sandwich grabbed from the supermarket in between meetings and then at 9:45pm I made myself a grilled bacon sandwich with tons of mustard (to clear my sinuses) at home which I ate in bed with a cup of tea - I was shattered. Nothing remotely green or healthy involved.

I will try to make up for it today.

Good luck on avoiding pancakes everyone, I will be making them tonight but don't like them much (it is the smell of cooking with oil at high temps that I hate) so that should be easy.

Gah, I forgot it was Pancake Day! Whoops.

Good work disillusioned, that's lovely to see.

Signing in for my Tuesday b2b. Weighed this morning and I've gained slightly - I think that's an indulgent weekend talking. The overall trend is positive, which will keep me going:

75.5
75.5
75.3 b2b
75.3
75.2
74.8 b2b
74.2 mini
74.8

Good luck any other pancake-dodging Tuesday fasters!

Well done on your SV, teacher
That's great progress and you have really earned that by sticking to Fast800

Maud IF / 5:2 is like nutritional HIIT: it works on the same principle that intervals of high effort bring more effective than lower sustained effort.
However, it can be tiring for your body, until it adapts fully.

This is why I recommend an early night on FDs,
as well as concentrating on getting the meximum nutritional bang for your FD calorie buck.

Also, if you exercise and find the early weeks tiring, then choose FDs on your 1-2 training restdays

pop Mosely recommends nuts & Greek yoghurt in his Mediteranean diet too, so obviously people must avoid foods they can't tolerate, whether nuts, dairy or beans

Hummus Your overall longterm trend is downwards.
So don't worry about a weekend blip, so long as the trend continues

penguin A TDEE 1000 lower than your male OH is quite usual
Yep, biology sucks sometimes.

Blossom Let us know how you are getting on after your nasty accident
Are you going to fast, to maintain while you can't move much ?

Don't feel deprived if today is an NFD
You can join in with pancakes if you have it as a meal, not a snack or a pud

You can have pancakes with your normal recipe, like everyone else, just don't stuff yourself to the brim with sugary stuff.
Try a savoury pancake for one round

If you like healthier / low carb versions, personally I adapt the recipe:

I beat 2 eggs well
then add 1 tbsp flaxmeal and beat that in well (so I don't use flour at all - I avoid it when possible)
then add ½ teasp olive oil (it's healthy)
and milk for your preferred consistency (I have nut milk, as I dislike cows milk, but your choice)
½ teasp cinammon if you want sweet crepes
Mix again

I pus a few drops of olive oil / algae oil in the pan for each crepe - it's healthy oil

I like very thin crepes, so I add about 200 ml milk.
Add less if you aren't sure for the first one

Fillings
either sweet, e.g. berries or apple slices, with optionally Greek yoghurt (I don't add any sugar)
or savoury with say ham / smoked salmon & cream cheese / grated

oh and I add flaked almonds & cinammon to the sweet pancakes

Morning all,

Happy Tuesday, sunny here today - for now! Maud, I'm also feeling quite drained today but think I also slept badly due to overactive work brain. Woke at 4.30 and struggled to get back to sleep and then alarm goes off at 5.45am so not great! Yawn.

NFD for me today and am already a bit rumbly which is v unlike me at breakfast. Think the tiredness is a big hunger trigger. Period pain too! Yay Tuesday! planning to drink lots of water and try to be a mindful eater today.

Hummus, love a downward trend! That's what makes me feel it's sustainable - life changes so much week on week it'd be boring to be a straight line! And Disillusioned - wow! Well done you. It's obviously really suiting you, you must feel fab

Morning everyone, happy pancake day (mmmmm)

quacking hope you have a good week this week and that gain will soon be history

welcome back scruffy and good luck getting back on track, I'm sure you'll be fine

maud that's some bloody will power you have, after a sip there's no way i'd be giving my wine away I can also completely sympathise with your family situation as my DH is 6 foot 4 and about 17stone (but solid) and my 8 year old DS is going to be even bloody bigger if his rate of growth is anything to go on!!!

Teacher wonderful SV

FD here and its day 2 of TOTM so its going to be a struggle as I just want to comfort eat.... didn't make it to Pilates last night as was in bed with a hot water bottle and some painkillers at 8.50pm so wish me luck to get through today!!!!!

Good luck fellow fasters

Good luck, 43 and post whenever you need a supporting hand
Be gentle to your bod, only do the essential chores and don't try to exercise if totm hits you this badly.

totm - another example of how biology sucks
(wtf was God smoking when she thought it was a good idea to invent that ?)

thanks bcf I will do....

Yep biology sucks indeed although I tend to credit / blame mother nature rather than god misses the point

Take care of yourself, scruffy and plan so you get an early night.

Lack of sleep often increases morning hunger,
It's ok for an occasional night, but regular sleep deprivation often leads to weight gain & sometimes to health issues

https://www.health.com/health/condition-article/0,,20232959,00.html

Lack of sleep can disrupt hormone levels, making you feel hungry even when your body doesn't need food
....
Two hormones in your body play an important role in controlling appetite and satiety.
Ghrelin stimulates appetite, causing you to eat;
leptin suppresses appetiteso you'll stop eatingand stimulates energy expenditure.

In a properly functioning brain, the two hormones are released on and off to regulate normal feelings of hunger.

But research has shown that sleep deprivation can alter ghrelin and leptin levels.

If you're chronically sleep-deprived and consume more high-calorie foods, it's likely those calories will be deposited around your middle, forming fat deposits that are especially dangerous for raising your risk of type II diabetes.

"It's known as visceral fat deposition," says Dr. Samuels.
"Sleep-deprived individuals' ability to respond to a glucose load and release insulin is altered."

I haven’t been on this thread much, which is never a good thing! I’ve been working nights at a restaurant as well as part time supply teaching. I don’t have time to eat when I’m at work, which is fine, but it means I tend to eat more when I get home and I don’t always make the best choices.

First FD of the week today though, so it’s onwarda and upwards. My last FD was Thursday. My eating and drinking over the weekend (Fri-Mon) has been all over the place .

Fecking hell disillusioned. You’re doing amazingly well. I take my hat off to you! I couldn’t stick to that sort of diet for even a week.

And as for Pancake Tuesday it can fuck right off. My eldest was furious this morning when I said I wasn’t making pancakes. I don’t bloody care. They can make them themselves when I’m at work tonight. Ooo reading that back it does make me sound like a bit of a witch. Can you tell totm is round the corner?

BCF's post about sleep has just prompted me to think about something that I'd thought of a while back which is how I need to put myself to bed earlier in general.

I often stay up late and have a "midnight" snack and I have it because i'm tired and I interpret that as instruction from my body to have an energy boost instead of how I should be interpreting post-10pm tiredness as instruction to just GO TO BED.

Hell’s bells, I’ve just read a thread on AIBU re. not making pancake for DC before school this morning. I hope to God none of the posters read my last comment. I’ll be hung drawn and quartered! It seems like my poor darling children have been scarred for life.

This is a safe place on MN, Maz
where the vipers can't find you !

Prioritise looking after yourself, pop Plan a bit of TLC
I especially recommend early nights on FDs, to maximise fasting benefits.

Women often don't take care of their health, because they are pressured so much about their appearance
and if they have families, usually put themselves last

Afternoon all, Fasting from Head Office today and all going well

will check back in properly tonight