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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Earslaps · 05/03/2019 14:22

3lb gone since this time last week! My target is to lose another 8lbs before July and the big 4-0, but I'm more concerned about feeling healthy and fit than the number on the scales at the moment. I'm definitely feeling more energetic and less bloated and lethargic since I restarted 5:2. I slept like a dream last night too.

I've been trying to eat to keep my guts healthy, with lots of fermented foods and lots of vegetables to feed the good bacteria. NFD, so breakfast was homemade yogurt with homemade granola and berry chia seed jam. Lunch was german style rye bread with homemade smoked mackerel pate, avocado and a giant portion of shredded cabbage, kohlrabi and carrot salad, then an apple and a piece of kidney bean chocolate cake. Not sure what dinner will be, but there will be pancakes in there somewhere! No exercise today but planning for some gentle weights tomorrow, a run on Thursday and Blaze on Friday.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2019 15:56

Congratulations on your SV, Earslaps
and that is impressivel healthy eating on NFDs

Head Office fasting sounds most impressive, MrD, SIr 😀

OP posts:
TalkinPaece · 05/03/2019 16:29

Popgoes
Midnight snacks are lethal for weight management.
If you can, shut the kitchen after supper.
A big glass of water late in the evening is good as then you do not wake up thirsty
but anything sugary late at night unless its a martini is bad Grin

OohMrDarcy · 05/03/2019 17:48

Home! Long, busy day but it is done!

BigChoc - Head Office fasting is pretty easy really (as long as a normal day and no socialising involved!) There is a subway over the road so I head there and switch around my main meal so that is it (roast chicken on 9 grain wheat)... Plenty of water / cups of tea and all good.

Earslaps - Fantastic SV, well done!

boxlikeamarchhare · 05/03/2019 18:10

Amazing eating Earslaps. I have a yoga teacher friend who makes all sorts of fermented food and drink.

On track here, lentil salad for lunch, I have just made pancakes for everyone and not had even a bite of one myself. 😇

Chicken, steamed baby veg and butter bean mash up next.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 05/03/2019 18:58

Well done on tour sv ears and what a delicious sounding menu....

Well done mrd and box fd finished here on 550ish cals, ditto here box ds just had pancakes and ddog got mine Grin

Could murder a martini right now though tip Smile

EssentialHummus · 05/03/2019 19:44

Popgoes Midnight snacks are a total sabotage! Honestly, if you can get yourself to bed earlier (easier said than done I know) you'll feel better for it.

Well done mrd, box, 43, ear. End of b2b here. I had my main meal at noon instead of evening as I was really hungry - again, ready meal with a pile of broccoli. So just a coffee here this evening. No pancakes here either, but (Russian) DH assures me that it's pancake week over there, so we'll reschedule Grin.

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 05/03/2019 20:41

Dipping my toe in at someone's recommendation. I really need a boost (in more ways than one) to try and lose 10kgs(should go lower but that would make me happy).

Going to read the whole thread first to see how this works and what I'm actually supposed to do.Grin

TalkinPaece · 05/03/2019 20:45

Hi there Sarcasm
Welcome to the gang
I've been here on and off for 7 years
BigChoc's opening posts and links are a great starting point
but with PCOS
and a stall on amazing weight loss , herself might have some extra up to date information for you.

The main thing on here is that there is no failure
only success deferred Grin

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 05/03/2019 20:56

Thank you... I'm kinda afraid to start in case it turns into another moany rant.

I guess i should start with some stats.

33
85kg
1.67 cm
Not particularly active(around 10 k steps a day and around 20 active minutes)
PCOS
Can't live without carbs(after a week I feel shit,weak and like I have a nasty cold)

Atm 5 days a week I eat well under 1500 cals a day (more like 1000 and a bit or under) . At the weekend I do eat more.
I'll attach a pic of my fit bit stats for today and I did the calculator.
Don't really take measurements,as even when I have lost weight they kinda stayed the same especially my huge waist/belly which are the main problem.

Anything else I should add ,just ask.

I also have a question, are biometric scales actually accurate?

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind
5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 05/03/2019 20:58

Good work essential and at the prospect of a pancake week!!!

Welcome sarcasm and good luck, just ask away if you have any questions.

I'm grumpy and hangry so I've taken myself off to bed, poor dh, that's 2 nights on the trot I've been in bed before 9pm, he might start to think I'm avoiding him Grin anyway looking forward to nfd tomorrow, fd#2 planned for Fri again.

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 05/03/2019 21:11

For now I just wonder which method would work best, even if it's just a little boost . I desperately need one(nearly as much as carbs).

Also one of my meals(lunch) is from the exante diet(I like the taste and fits in with work) is that ok? Can I use them for the fasting days?

TalkinPaece · 05/03/2019 21:13

Sarcasm
BigChoc may not turn up for a few hours
BUT
this board is not snipey or judgey
as much of MN is actually lovely

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 05/03/2019 21:33

Oh I don't expect an answer straight away or even today. Just thought I'd throw as much info in as I could. I'm quite nice too when I'm in not full ranty mode.Grin

GrannyPenny · 05/03/2019 21:35

Checking in for March. Loving the new title BigChoc!

Blossom - ouch! I've been on a horse once, and once was definitely enough. Wishing you as speedy a recovery as possible.

NSV - Now into month 3 of no sugary desserts, pastries or biscuits. Cravings are still there catching me at odd times but i've reached the stage where I don't feel deprived by not having them.

Even though my weight is staying the same, I'm slowly losing fat around my abdomen. Alas not as quickly as I'd like so I probably need to start thinking about adding some FDs back into my routine. Maybe Thursday. Maybe.

Iamblossom · 05/03/2019 22:22

Thanks for all best wishes. Still in hospital awaiting operation.

To answer question upthread weekend was effectively a back back with all this going on. Sicky feeling from drugs has meant 1000 cal days since then and loads of water.

Will have to watch what I eat but expect to gain whilst laid up.

mystifiedinbrighton · 05/03/2019 22:58

Can i join you in?

I am doing 5/2. Have a stone to lose. Don't go to gym but walk quickly an hour or so a day. Am on week 3. So far so good. Haven't weighed self yet because have no scales in the house, but feel as though I have lost a few pounds.

Today was my first FD of the week. Have had 1 cup of coffee with whole milk, 1 cup of earl grey with SS milk, two herbal teas, 1 options hot chocolate with whole milk, M&S ready meal at 300 cals AND one cod bite from DD's dinner.....

If it weren't for that bloody cod bite, I could have had a proper snack! As it is, i'm about to turn the light off....

Well done fasters.

Hockneypool · 05/03/2019 23:20

Evening all Checking in for a positive March. Lost my way abit late January and all of February. But March is looking good and it’s so much lighter now - it’s lifted my mood.

First fast day for ages today and it went well, and even did 15 miles on the turbo trainer (cycling). I ate first and have drunk loads of water throughout the day.

We forgot pancake day until it was too late. DD2 and I decided it was a ‘moveable feast’ and we could have pancakes tomorrow instead. Really looking forward to them now!

Well done and welcome Mystified that’s looks alike a very successful fast day .

OohMrDarcy · 06/03/2019 07:32

Morning all, lots of fasting chat going on, I'm struggling to keep up!

Blossom, which bit are you needing op on? Hope you are all sorted and back to strength soon.

Welcome newbies, we are a very friendly and supportive group.

Who ever it was who asked about the exante product for FDs.... I'd check the content. You want it to be protein based rather than carb. If it is it could work.

EssentialHummus · 06/03/2019 07:51

Sending you good wishes blossom. Do they know how long you'll be in?

Welcome brighton and sarcasm! I don't know about Exante at all, just had a look on their website and am none the wiser unfortunately. Sorry. Hopefully someone else will know.

SV today, as I'm 1kg/2lb down since yesterday (obviously some water there too). Now 73.8kg/11.6 st. Very happy with that! I'm wondering about shifting my main meal to lunchtime instead of dinner, as it seems to lead to bigger losses (or has done twice for me, anyway) - has anyone noticed something like this?

scruffybarnsley · 06/03/2019 08:05

Morning all,

Checking in for day 1 B2B. Had an early night & a slightly later alarm and feel like a new woman! Still knackered but not sicky tired so that's progress. BCF - thanks for info on tiredness hormones. I am much more able to rationalise how I'm feeling (and make different choices) if I know what's going on physically so that actually really helps. Otherwise I tell myself that my body must 'need' it and it's carte blanche to eat a triple choc muffin when I literally never do otherwise Angry

Hummus - I read a (probably unscientific) blog post on how the timing of your main meal affects your metabolism/weight loss but it could all be quackery so I'll let BCF answer it properly! Psychologically I have to eat my main meal at dinner as eating anything makes me want to eat more so I push it as late as possible! Makes sense though that eating earlier will be more burned off as you're still active through your day rather than just eating, sitting and then going to bed (me!).

Late to the party MrD due to all the posts in between but 'fasting from Head Office' makes it sound very official :) had a little smile at that Smile

Good luck all fasting today. Welcome to sarcasm and anyone else starting off. Amazing snack NSV Granny!

Love how chatty the group is at the mo!

QuackingDuck1985 · 06/03/2019 08:42

MrDarcy, Scruffy, 43, Maz, box, Hummus I hope your FDs went well for you all

Pop - Agree if you can your midnight snack needs to be knocked on the head. I’ve been guilty of this prior to 5:2.

Ears - Congratulations on your loss, 8lbs before July you will smash that no problem.

Sarcasm- Welcome to the thread, make sure you take measurements so you can look back. This way of life is amazing for inch loss.
I used to use meal replacement diet shakes, soups and bars for FDs in the early days. It’s fine, Mosley says in his book it’s fine. actually I found it took the hassle out of FDs as I could have any 3 combination and was just under 500 cals. I used this until I found my feet with normal food on FDs.

Granny - I hope you are well, loosing fat is a fantastic sign well done.

Blossom- Wishing you a speedy recovery

Mystified Welcome to the thread. Well done on your FD.

Hockey- Pleased you have found your way again. Well done on your fast.

Hummus Well done on your loss.

OohMrDarcy · 06/03/2019 11:41

Congrats on the SV Essential

haha Scruffy! I wish! I'm an oddball in that I work for the companies IT dept, so a central function but due to various company mergers and sales we are all over the country, so officially home based. I try to get up there every week or two but doesn't always happen!

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 06/03/2019 12:55

Quacking thank you I already have loads as that's how I lost a bit but can't live on them only like yhey advise on the plans. I still use them as one of my two meals a day so it would be handy if I could just do those for FD's (saves money and hassle).

TalkinPaece · 06/03/2019 13:21

Unintended fast day today
cos I got my work timings wrong and missed lunch.
Lashings of tea though Grin

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