5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Oops, it was Swede, not Sparkle, 😉 that asked.

All fasting WOEs are welcome here, swede 🙂
and we've accumulated a lot of tips and knowledge of the science

We are mostly on 5:2, but there are a few doing Fast800 and several in the past have done the 5:2 BSD

For Fast800, Mosely suggests anything from 2-8 weeks on the daily 800 cals, before moving to the 5:2 BSD
So, if you're struggling on the 1st phase, it makes sense to move on to the more sustainable 5:2

If you wish, you can do this gradually, say with 800 cals every other day, then down to 2 FDs when you are ready

The combination of daily low carb and 2 FDs is a powerful WOE to burn bodyfat,
especially as you are also planning to eat within TDEE on the NFDs

Hmm, I have been aiming for 800 cals even on FDs is that the wrong thing to do BCF?

I haven't eaten anything apart from two almonds so far today, lots of water and herbal tea. I am just about to make dinner which will be 600-800 calories depending on how big my portion size is.

Thanks Groovies and Big Choc!

I really like the low carb and Mediterranean way if eating but do need the fasting too to loose weight and improve my health. I think I will move over from fast800 a day to 5:2 now. Might try and do 3 FDs next week.

Have had a lovely low carb day and making a chicken casserole with cauliflower mash for dinner. Love cauliflower mash

Hey everyone I've been missing past couple of weeks due to house move but back and still going strong 💪🏻 I'm 11 pounds down in total now and another 7 to be my goal weight

box If 800 is giving you an adequate rate of loss, then just carry on

Congratulations on your SV, JC
I hope the house move and packing / unpacking went well

Swede It's very useful if you like cauliflour mash - a super-healthy substitute for mash or rice.

I really like butternut squash as a substitute

What also works well for me and fits well into low carb Med are kidney beans or chick peas - these can be mashed up.
Mosely recommends a serviing of beans / peas / lentils most days, because research has shown that these foods help stabilise blood sugar

BigChoc, that's interesting about the pulses stabilising blood sugars. I will try to add some to my lunch or dinner. I have some butter beans in the cupboard I might do something with tomorrow.

Beans and pulses are also good for the microbiome, according to DH who's read the Clever Guts book.

The fibre in beans helps

Mosely recommends full-fat Greek yogurt too
and have plenty of fish, plenty of olive oil

These are significant differences to standard low carb, which make it a very healthy diet longterm

*The reasons why far more people - and many DC - are overweight now than before about 1980 is entirely down to the obesogenic environment that commercial pressures have developed over the last few decades

• not because there has been a drop in moral fibre*

Thanks BigChoc

Box my FDs are probably about 700cal and I’ve been losing on average 600g/week for nearly 3 months. I love coffee and can’t have it without milk so even though I eat 500 there’s probably another 150-200 in milk. If I’m buying a FW I’ll have a skinny one, as a fast day concession

Now that close to goal weight I’m expecting it to slow down and that I may have to lose the FD milk but I couldn’t have done the earlier ones without some concessions. My first 4 fast days were a massive shock, now they’re fairly easy.

Place marking on shiny new thread!!!

Sorry if I offended you surprised and glad your dh is supportive, couldnt agree more with bcfs post about pressure on women etc,

I have a really supportive dh who hasnt batted an eyelid over my weight issues and still fancies me whether I'm 14 or 11 stone, unfortunately some of my friends have pigs for husbands who can be extremely unsupportive whilst obviously not the body beautiful themselves.....

Well done weekend fasters

Morning everyone 🙂

Storms forecast later, so I'm off now for a walk along the Rhine,
then spin class and leg weights

That's a decent rate of loss, surprised as you are nearing goal
The last few pounds can go very slowly, as ntbo there is far less bodyfat available to burn.

If you get below about 22% bodyfat, then you may be down to what is often called "stubborn fat"

in which the fat cells have lots of alpha receptors (highly resistant to fat-burning)
instead of beta-receptors (allow easier fat-burning)

These are typically in the typical lower body areas for women: bum, thighs

If the fat is concentrated around your mid-section
this is usually caused by issues of insulin metabolism - so you need to be mindful about atarchy carb portions -
and / or too high intake of sugar or alcohol.

Happy Sunday everyone. (Wet and rainy in London so still in PJ’s!)

Having a quiet cuppa and a chuckle over the new thread name... excellent choice!

Well done to the weekend fasters and all the SV. Enjoy your walk big choc I hope you get home before the storms!

Morning everyone. Successful FD yesterday - NFD today.

Enjoy your walk BCF, I am halfway round a seven mile walk having coffee and a NT bacon roll. I have walked with my Nordic poles this morning = extra effort. The temperature has really dropped in the last 30 minutes so I will be on my way home soon.

Sorry if I offended you surprised and glad your dh is supportive, couldnt agree more with bcfs post about pressure on women etc,

I’m not remotely offended, 43, not even slightly! I think it’s really weird I haven’t told him, but I feel I’m too far in now. He’s never ever commented on my weight either, I think I’m just projecting my own sensitivity. He fancies me regardless as well.

DH is very fit and slim and always training for something lengthy and physically demanding, he has no weight to lose though. Sometimes I think I maybe don’t want him to get involved with IF as well and get into fasted endurance training or something

bigchoc My proportions don’t really change when I lose or gain weight, I am quite long-bodied with a small waist and small boobs. With the 11-12 kg weight gain I looked like all of me had been inflated, my current last 5kg is definitely on my stomach but I can still see it on my face and randomly my upper chest. I’m expecting it to slow down but that’s ok, I already look more like my usual self.

It’s rainy where I am in Australia as well stirbut Sunday night here and not cold at all. Poor kids still had to do nippers (junior surf lifesavers) on a rainy beach but they were nicer for the exercise.

Hi can I join? I came across this thread last Saturday and it really inspired me to look more in to the Fast800/5:2 way of dieting as I didn't know much about it. I am severely overweight (think at least 8 stone to lose ).

Anyway I made a meal plan last Sunday, did a big shop and ordered the book online. I bit the bullet and started on Monday. Wow! I thought it was going to be a disaster but have been pleasantly surprised at how well I am able to stick to it. I have used mostly MMs recipes from the book and am just finishing reading the book. It all makes so much sense, not only to help shift the stones but at how much healthier this way of eating it for my insides...I am a convert!!

Have been weighing myself daily and by Thursday I had lost 9lbs...9lbs in 3 days!!! Weight stayed the same for the next couple of days but as of today, day 6, I have lost a whopping 11lbs and am feeling so motivated!!

What I want to ask you all though is, has anyone got cold/flu like symptoms in the first week? I don't know if it's just coincidence (I'm a nursery teacher so my little people looooovvvvee to share their germs) or if it is my body readjusting to the new WOE? Has anyone else experienced this?

This thread and the other Fast800 one have been a great inspiration and support so thought it was time I contributed!

Welcome, teacher 🙂
and congratulations on your SV and fab start

Those with a lot of weight to lose can indeed lose big amounts of weight in the first week or two.
This is mostly water, but that loss in itself brings important benefits:
large amounts of retained water often causes high blood pressure, which is reduced by losing the excess water

After the first couple of weeks, loss will slow down, but might still be 3-4 lb per week until you have lost quite a bit more.

btw, if you are taking blood pressure medication, check your blood pressure regularly and if it has gone down a lot, ask your doctor about reducing the meds doseage.

Fasting is now used by some specialists to help high BP and / or preT2 and T2
A healthy fasting regime - with reasonably nutritious food daily - may reduce values eventually to the normal range.

re cold symptoms:
This can happen occasionally at the start of fasting and has probably similar causes to the well-known "low carb flu" that sometimes occurs when starting a low carb diet.

Your body is adapting to a big change and is changing itself, e.g. probably improving insulin metabolism
For both fasting and low carb diets, symptoms should be gone within a couple of weeks.

Longterm fasters often report they have fewer colds etc - I certainly do - and also reduced symptoms of conditions like IBS, PCOS, asthma, some skin ailments.

Oh and do keep drinking plenty of water
That's important for everyone, but especially when you are losing very rapidly

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy that's really good advice and will definitely make sure I am drinking plenty of water. I've gone from drinking 2 plus litres of Diet Coke a day () to having one small glass with my dinner and the rest of the time it's been water or green tea.

The rapid weight loss at the start has been a great motivator and I've also been reading MM latest book which has helped me see how important it is I change my WOE not only for vanity reasons but for my long term health.

Fortunately I don't have high blood pressure and have actually had problems with low blood pressure in the past but T2 diabetes does run in my family and this worries me so I'm hoping a change of life style will help me avoid getting it!

That's a great healthy habit NSV, teacher, cutting right back on Coke,
so do make it permanent
One of my regular recommendations for healthy habits is to limit flavoured fizz to that sort of amount.

Mosely in his books repeatedly warns that artifical sweeteners change gut flora, as well as spiking insulin in some people.
Hence they may also increase fat storage

• ethical issues probably prevent a longterm trial of sugary vs diet coke, since both are known to be unhealthy choices in large amounts.

Coke is particularly unhealthy
with its high content of phosphoric acid - which longterm may harm bones, heart, kidneys -
and the combination of caffeine & aspartame which in excess may overstimulate the brain's neuroreceptors

From therenegadepharmacist.com:

Think how much money you will save disillusioned. I only ever buy fizzy drinks about four times a year when DD has a sleepover but am always 😳😳 at the price.

You could treat yourself to something nice with the ££ you save.

Like granny who buys herelf gold thread for rings, from money saved by not buying sugary junk.