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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 76: Your body needn‘t be a temple, but join us to stop it being a junky drive-thru.

989 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/04/2018 23:10

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
BigChocFrenzy · 22/04/2018 23:12

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Grin Welcome to 5:2 thread # 76 ! Grin

FAQs & tips in the OP

"HOW TO START" section has:

  • Acronyms
  • Tips & FAQs
  • FD recipes, meal plans
  • Body Goal Visualisers
  • Calculators for TDEE, Body Fat, Frame Size, Ideal Weight Range, Daily Alcohol Units / Cals

"Scientific Evidence for Health & Fasting" is at the end of the OP and includes links to peer-reviewed science papers

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OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 23/04/2018 01:36

Thanks BCF!

Another night up with DS. Don't think I'll have the energy to fast tomorrow.

applelolly · 23/04/2018 06:51

morning all. Just checking in. Disastrous weekend for me in the end. I was out at events both days, and both included food, including things like cake, chips and ice cream Blush That isn't really a typical weekend for me, although it is usually weekends that are my downfall. Anyway, overall result is up 3lb from Friday,Blush which still leaves me with a net 3lb loss from last Monday - so not too bad all things considered. Fast day today, then motivated to stick to just under tdee for nfds this week. Then major goal is to try to eat at least more mindfully next weekend.

katienana · 23/04/2018 07:10

Hello newbie here, I was reading about 5:2 yesterday in the mail and am confused by the suggestion of having 800kcal on fast days. Does anyone do this and does it work?

WreckTangled · 23/04/2018 07:11

Thanks! Fd today and have woken up starving obviously due to the wine and carbs yesterday. Plenty of water for me today.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/04/2018 07:15

Don't worry, apple That is probably mostly undigested food and retained water from all the excess carbs.
An FD and a couple of dumps should get rid of that
Keep drinking water to help flush it all out

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/04/2018 07:17

wreck The NFD before an FD, try to avoid junk & booze after 3pm, as the FD is harder if you wake up with cravings and a sore head

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 23/04/2018 07:18

Thanks bcf
wreck yes lots of water... good luck.
Welcome katie if you go back to the last couple of pages of thread #75 bcf discusses the 800 v 500 cal in more detail.

apple don't worry about it, a couple of good fd will sort that out Smile

Nfd today, woken up to totm, feeling crampy and sorry for myself but going to resist until lunch, might tray myself to a skinny latte though to get me through.

Good luck Monday fasters

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 23/04/2018 07:19

'Treat' not tray? Stooopid autocorrect Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 23/04/2018 07:20

Welcome, Katie Smile

I posted this on the last thread about 800 FDs:

imo, from experience of 5:2 threads from #35 - #75:

800 cal FDs sometimes are suitable for these types of folk:

  • with higher (2400+) TDEE e.g. men / a lot to lose / very tall / young & very sporty
  • On maintenance
  • Accept slow loss in return - which is absolutely OK

but give v slow - or no - loss for those:

  • low TDEE e.g. women who are short / post-meno
  • "hard losers" due to PCOS, thyroid, meds etc
  • those who regularly average even 200 over TDEE on NFDs

For those who have problems managing 500
You could try 800, at least to start - after a couple of months, you can probably start easing to 700FDs, then 600.

If loss tails off, then either ease into 500 FDs,
or do 3 miniFDs (850-1000 cals) per week - e.g. Mon+Wed+Fri - which usually gives about the same loss as 5:2 with 500 FDs

OP posts:
WreckTangled · 23/04/2018 07:27

I know BCF i was at a bbq so should be a one off!

CheshireSplat · 23/04/2018 07:31

Morning all!

Just weighed in and have STS at 10 stone 13.5. am happy enough with that after a blow-out on Wednesday of last week. And have hit my SV of not going up to 11 stone.

Will lose this week, I'm sure. And have definitely changed the way I eat, I now rarely have 3 meals in one day. Eating much more mindfully.

Good luck all FDers. Haven't decided whether I'm b2bing or not this week.

MazDazzle · 23/04/2018 07:34

Broken sleep is the absolute pits purple. It makes me want to fall head first into the biscuit tin and drink gallons of Diet Coke! I’ve 3 DC and 2 of them were terrible sleepers.

Checking in for a FD today. Woke up feeling hungry, which is unusual. Hopefullly it’ll pass after I’ve had some water. Good luck to everyone else who’s fasting today!

quackingduck222 · 23/04/2018 07:43

Thanks BCF for the shiny new thread.

Mighty - that’s great news that yoursticking around and also you’ve recruited your sister.

Purple- you’re been having such a hard time of it lately. Hope this passes for you really soon. Also come back and update us when you’ve seen your PT. You’ve done so well.

Apple- honestly these things happen life can get in the way. But remember any damage done can quickly be repaired after a good FD and a good poop.
Well done on your loss this week. 3lbs is a really good amount.

Katie - welcome, I was just saying yesterday that if the new 5:2 diet recruits new members then it’s a good thing.

Tangled- good luck for your FD today.

43 - hoping you have a good NFD despite the dreaded TOTM symptoms.

Cheshire - that’s a really good NSV sometimes it takes weeks of STS or sometimes gaining to sort or heads or give us the knowledge for the future. It’s such a learning curve isn’t it. But not gaining is a good week. And being more mindful and not having 3 meals is a tool for life.

yogi47 · 23/04/2018 07:47

Morning all. Checking in for a FD here and going for a b2b for today and tomorrow due to my diary this week. I've got mixed results/feelings about b2b so we'll see. Got my 650 b2b calories planned and prepped though so should be ok. Have a good day everyone.

Hockneypool · 23/04/2018 08:44

I’ve been lurking for a while and a new thread seems like the right time to join in and get some accountability.

I have a low TDEE. I’m 5ft 3, 52 with an office job. I go through phases of being active and then not. Currently not! I weigh 9 stone 9lbs, about 5 lbs over my happy range. So first goal is 9.4

My plan for the week is to fast on Tuesday and Thursday.

HLBug · 23/04/2018 08:53

Marking my place on the shiny new thread (thanks BCF). Welcome to katie and hockney, nice to have you both here Grin

Homemadehopeful · 23/04/2018 08:57

Checking in for a FD today too. Not feeling as prepared as I was on Friday but am working from home so at least I can avoid all the biscuits in the office!!

Welcome katienana and hockey. Lots of lovely support on this thread.

I feel your pain Wreck! After a good Sat and most of Sunday we ended up going to Pizza Express with friends last night (not planned) where I had pizza and wine!!

Good luck to all Monday FDers Smile

applelolly · 23/04/2018 09:29

thanks for the encouragement all!
the thing I like about this plan is that it allows for real life. When I did ww a few years ago I lost 4 stone. BUT everyday was counting points and never allowing myself a treat etc so when I got to my goal weight my brain said "right, I've done that now, time to stop depriving myself" and so back on went the 4 stone!! Where as with this I could imagine sticking to it for life.
Fast day in progress and going well so far!

OohMrDarcy · 23/04/2018 09:33

Morning all

Busy weekend here. ExH's baby was born so kids went off to meet her and have weekend with Daddy (came back shattered as baby had woken them all up)
I cleared my garage of all the crap I had been meaning to get rid of. Didn't sleep well Saturday night - terrific storm kept me up for hours. Sunday I went for a 2.5hr walk in the new forest. Was 6 miles - but we went rogue ... all off road and not even following paths, great fun even if we did get a tad lost for a while and had a few bogs / streams to navigate!

Thinking tomorrow and Thursday for FDs this week - can't think of any reason they won't work at the moment. Friday I'm giving blood and then we are off camping for the weekend (first one of the season)... I'm debating accidentally buying a poled tent to give us a bit more room in the car... normally use an air one now but it packs up MASSIVE!

littleladylawyer · 23/04/2018 09:47

Morning all, checking in for a fd today. Had a great weekend but ate lots so keen to reset and give my body a chance to digest everything! Not sure whether to have b2b tomorrow or have my 2nd fd later in the week, will see how it goes I think.

Haven't had a chance to catch up on the thread properly, but welcome to newbies and Good luck to all the Monday fasters!

snailhunter · 23/04/2018 10:38

Hello all! Checking in for FD today after lovely restful weekend with Pimms and food and friends. Feeling very positive this week as also managed a run yesterday which cranked the endorphins up! Also had an exercise victory: managed to hold a plank for 1m 20 sec, my longest yet!

CheshireSplat · 23/04/2018 10:44

Welcome Hockney there are loads of us who are 5’3” and 5’2” on this thread. You’re in good, if short, company!

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 23/04/2018 12:01

Hello all
Second 2:5 week today.
Am becoming addicted up itsu seaweed crisps! 24 cals a packet Grin
Good luck all to Monday fasters 🙌🏽

katienana · 23/04/2018 12:18

Thanks for the welcome, I'm going to start next Monday so I've had lots of time to digest all the info and plan my fast days. I think I will start with 800 cals, I am doing it with dh and it will be way easier for us to have the same. I also have 2 small children so can't avoid cooking for them, the extra calorie allowance should give me a bit of room to not give in to temptation. I can always reduce later once I'm used to it and have done good go-to recipes under my belt.