Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 76: Your body needn‘t be a temple, but join us to stop it being a junky drive-thru.

989 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/04/2018 23:10

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
HLBug · 24/04/2018 09:10

Checking in for a Tuesday FD

OohMrDarcy · 24/04/2018 09:10

Morning all

Welcome to all the newbies! Take your time, ask any questions you need and you'll be successful!

I'm checking in for a FD here, struggling with drinking enough water this week so making a concerted effort today!

NoWayNoHow · 24/04/2018 09:38

Checking in for Day 1 of my first B2B - have a 340cal lasagne ready meal with tonnes of veg for lunch, and will see what I can get for the remaining 250cals at supermarket tonight as will have to eat on the go in between appointments.

Welcome friendly - OP says breastfeeders should start with 1,000cal FDs and reduce down gradually to no less than 700cals. Depending on how you felt after yesterday, maybe up the next FD count a bit if you're worried about milk? Sure you'll find the right cals for both you and DC.

Good luck all FDers today - darcy you and I can egg each other along in the water-drinking deparment cos I am TERRIBLE at having enough! Blush

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/04/2018 09:40

thanks for the advice everyone...

ghost go back and read the OP but i think if you are breastfeeding you get more calories on a FD, 1000 maybe?? but go and check.

Good luck with it

CheshireSplat · 24/04/2018 10:20

I'm sooooo hungry this morning after yesterday's FD. My fault for not having filling calories - I wasted 160 calories on 2 dates, which meant rather scant meals. And this morning I was up from 2.20 with DD2 and didn't go back to sleep until after 5 - Noway think I bumped into you in another thread in the middle of the night!!!

It's gonna be a long day. Was too tired to make a proper lunch this morning, so I've got a nice looking but not not substantial-enough salad , with a bit of feta and a few seeds. May dip into the tuck shop for a packet of baked crisps and have them with it, not as a snack. Roll on 2 hours time!!!!

43 your update made me chuckle. Maybe you can lead them astray??!! 😁

Good luck all FDers and b2bers.

FriendlyGhost · 24/04/2018 10:27

Thanks Noway and forty. I have read the op now. I skimmed over it when I found the thread at 2am but missed that. I think as my dd is 14 months I will try for 700-800 on FD. She still feeds a lot but not like a newborn so I think I can try for fewer.
I have a stinking headache today. Is that a side effect of the fast yesterday?
Sending willpower to all on FD today. I’m hoping this thread will give me motivation and accountability!

NoWayNoHow · 24/04/2018 10:47

cheshire YY! It was my thread about DS not sleeping - hello and hi here too!

friendly the headache might be a side effect, yes. Did you have enough water? Some of us have Marmite in hot water if you love it, and don't hate it as a mid-morning/mid-afternoon pick me up as it's got lots of nutrients and salts etc and doesn't have enough calories to count as anything.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/04/2018 11:08

ha ha I will try my best cheshire one of them might be pliable Grin

Its going to be a tough day being up from 2am, hope your salad and crisps see you through

BigChocFrenzy · 24/04/2018 12:15

Welcome, friendly Smile
1000 cal FDs are for EBF; 700-800 sounds fine for you
Many 5:2ers have done FDs while BFing, including tandem feeding

To help avoid headaches while your body is adapting to fasting, on FDs glug a teasp neat Marmite mid-morning & mid-afternoon. This replenishes lost salt & minerals.
A Teasp Marmite now, or a hot Bovril, might help your head now

OP posts:
peachypips · 24/04/2018 12:46

Hi all. I am slinking in shame-facedly as have gone awol for the last month. Have been shit over Easter and have put on three pounds. So cross with myself and feel a bit miserable and despondent.

Can I come back?! I am fasting today. Couple of questions. Went to give blood yesterday and they said my iron is very low. Off to docs tmrw. Can I fast with low iron?

Also, I am now working in the ward and am finding fasting quite a lot harder. Could I do this pattern and still lose? I have a 2,000 TDEE.

Mon- 1,500
Tues- 500
Wed- 1,500
Thurs- 1,500
Fri- 1,500
Sat- 2,000
Sun - 2,000

Thanks you lot. Sorry to desert!

snailhunter · 24/04/2018 12:55

Welcome back peachy! Bah, three pounds is nothing. Don't be cross with yourself: you'll just feel like comfort eating. Easter was really hard for me too. Lots of chocolate floating around, shit weather, work stress, kids stress, family stress. Holiday are really tough in general, I think.

WreckTangled · 24/04/2018 12:58

Just had a big healthy lunch 500cals after 19 hours of not eating. Leaves me with 1000 for dinner which I won't use so should be a successful NFD.

HLBug · 24/04/2018 13:40

peachy I was wondering where you were - welcome back. A 3lb gain is nothing- I can easily achieve that after a big weekend away, never mind a month! (Fionne are you still out there too?)

I'm have a FD pedicure instead of lunch today - a lovely treat to keep me occupied Smile

Gammeldragz · 24/04/2018 13:55

FD #2 well under way, not done b2b before I don't think, but it's been fine. Had creamy coffees for breakfast and lunch. For dinner I will either have soup from the freezer or a concoction I create when I get home. Will see what I fancy...

Bought some lovely gap trousers in charity shop last week and they are starting to fall down! Nsv but annoyed as I like them and they were a bargain at £2.49, so rare I find long leg ones!

FriendlyGhost · 24/04/2018 14:14

Thanks for the marmite tip Bigchoc it worked a treat and my headache has gone.
I thought yesterday that I would want to eat all the food today but I don’t and have managed to be healthy. I think it’s because fasting was hard that I don’t want it to be for nothing. I hope this willpower lasts for more than a couple of days!

littleladylawyer · 24/04/2018 14:24

Hi peachy, I'm with snail and bug on this- 3lbs is nothing after a month off. If anything it sounds like you need to do better at falling off the wagon! Sorry you're feeling disappointed though. I think your plan sounds fine, maybe try lower gi in the week if you're not having the second fd, to give your body an easier time digesting.

gammel glad today is going well, I'm also on day 2 of b2b. Every week I say I'll do non-consecutive but then it gets to Tuesday and I'm not that hungry so seems easier just to get it out of the way! Well done on the slightly irritating trousers nsv, at least you had the foresight to go to a charity shop though.

Gammeldragz · 24/04/2018 14:36

peachy I gain 3lbs in a week off, never mind a month! Should be gone in a week or two.

OohMrDarcy · 24/04/2018 14:52

Today is HARD - suspect its due to my lack of water recently... just want to eat everything in sight.... I have a jug of water next to me and I'm pushing on....

MazDazzle · 24/04/2018 16:37

160 cals for 2 measlie dates, Cheshire? Shock Your disrupted sleep is probably making you feel hungrier too.

peachy 3lbs is nothing! A couple of fasts and you’ll be well on the way.

Day 2 of b2b and I’m coping surprisingly well. Youngest is poorly, so I’ve had a sweaty toddler glued to my chest and hardly any sleep. Was still up with him at 4:30am when the birds started! Exercise is definitely out of the window for today.

Sadly, there are no creches in this area. In fact there are no childcare facilities at all! No breakfast clubs, no wraparound care. There are a couple of childminders, but they only do full days. I had to take a career break because I couldn’t get childcare. It sucks. But hey, I chose to have kids, albeit without fully knowing the implications!

As a short term measure I’ve downloaded the 7 min work out app. Anyone on here tried it? I don’t get to pee in peace, so 7 mins might be a stretch! Worth a go though.

Good luck on your b2b Littlelady, Gammel and NoWay!

applelolly · 24/04/2018 16:49

afternoon all.
well done to all those fasting today. Nearly there.
I'm feeling significantly better so hopefully threatened virus will not materialise into too much! Just home form work, have had healthy food all day. Not sure what's for dinner yet, but off to body attack later ,wish me luck!

Gammeldragz · 24/04/2018 17:00

Dinner is in progress, leftover boiled Cabbage stir fried in tbsp rapeseed oil with mustard seeds and soy sauce, two boiled eggs and mayo. 515 cals for that, plus 150 for the two coffees with cream. So 675cals.

NoWayNoHow · 24/04/2018 18:26

Kitchen will close today on 672cals for B2B (when I eventually get home). It's been pretty easy actually, but I suspect it's day 2 that's harder? B2Bers - do you find either or both of the days easier/harder?

BigChocFrenzy · 24/04/2018 19:20

Welcome back, peachy
and don't worry, a couple of FDs should get rid of most / all of the gain

It's easy to get lost after a vacation, which is why I recommend everyone, before any holiday, to write down the date of their 1st FD back

Many women are low on iron. On FDs especially and NFDs, boost these foods:

Iron-rich foods:
Highest sources (in descending order):
liver, clams, oysters, beef, sardines, turkey, chicken, salmon, tuna, haddock, ham

Important
With vegetarian sources of iron, you must combine them in the same meal with food containing vitamin C, to enable sufficient absorption.

Combine
Vit C sources - especially good: apple, tomatoes, pomegranates, peaches, dates, bell peppers
with
iron sources - recommended: spinach, soy / kidney beans, chick peas, lentils, almonds, walnuts, sesame seeds, broccoli, baked potato

Tips
. Add a few almonds / walnuts / sesame seeds to yoghurt for more iron
. Add tomatoes to egg for Vit C / iron absorption

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/04/2018 19:22

Well done on your Trousers Falling Down NSV, Gammel
Just as well they were cheap !

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/04/2018 19:34

Welcome back peachy you'll have that off in no time. Well done to everyone fasting / b2b today and good trouser nsv gammel

Wow maz you sound very isolated...

Fd finished here on 462cals, will have a last cuppa later listening to the football.