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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 76: Your body needn‘t be a temple, but join us to stop it being a junky drive-thru.

989 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/04/2018 23:10

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Hockneypool · 24/04/2018 19:44

Reporting in. Fast day done. Hard to know the calories because all Home made. Edamame and halumi salad for lunch and tomato sauce with boroliti beans and olives for diner.

Going out for a walk to clear my head and distract myself from eating more.

Well done everyone and thank you for the support and welcome

HLBug · 24/04/2018 20:08

FD closing on 580. My willpower has known no bounds this evening - I've just spent ages cutting up birthday cake to send into nursery with DS tomorrow. I will definitely be having some tomorrow though!!

littleladylawyer · 24/04/2018 20:27

Dinner in the oven, can't wait for it this eve!

Kitchen will be closing at 465. Then healthy low gi week and have pizza planned on sat.

noway I find the first day of a b2b tricky at first, as it's Monday so I've normally had some junk food over the weekend and crave it. I save all my cals for dinner the first day, then split them into a small lunch and dinner on the second, which seems to keep me going better. I think the second is easier mentally, as it's just one day then done for the week, but I feel more physically hungry iyswim!

Well done to all of today's fasters. I'm loving this thread, keeps me so motivated to hear all of your stories and successes!

NoWayNoHow · 24/04/2018 21:11

Thanks littlelady - I'll be honest, the idea of having the FDs done and dusted for the week is appealing!

Am quite hungry now, and have lumch and dinner only for tomorrow, so am slightly dreading passing the hours until then!!

Homemadehopeful · 24/04/2018 21:31

Had typed my rather long comment then obviously pressed the wrong thing and it disappeared so here's a shorter version.

Well done all FDers today, especially those doing B2B!! I'm impressed and may consider this in future weeks.

Good FD here. 606 cals before dinner which I didn't work out cals of as DH cooked it, cauliflower and chick pea curry. Also swam 40 lengths.

Am considering a third FD tomorrow ( 1st was Fri, 2nd yesterday) as have a hen do at the weekend and I don't want to think about calories then. Have any of you done 4:3? I won't be making a habit of it but don't want the weekend to derail me when I have only just started!!

applelolly · 24/04/2018 21:55

body attack class was brutal! Feel good for going though. According to mfp I've had about 1500 calories today , yet it feels as if I've eaten a lot! I'm not totally sure of my tdee, according to calculator in original post it comes out as 1980 with activity set to light. I do one exercise class a week and 2 or 3 runs, of 5k with the occasional 10k thrown in. Plus occasional home workout . I am confusing myself using mfp though as it is linked to my Fitbit and keeps trying to give me extra calories when I exercise! Oh and my Fitbit bit gives me a different tdee too. Anyone want to Hazzard a guess on what I should aim for on nfds in the week if I wanted to keep a bit back to be more relaxed at weekends?!
well done to all those completing fast days.
nfd again for me tomorrow and I am going to do a 10k run.

DarkDarkNight · 24/04/2018 22:07

Just finished my second of my back to back fasts. Monday was easy, today dragged a bit. Looking forward to the rest of the week now.

I'm almost back down to my pre-Christmas weight now and am a lot happier. I'm regaining a bit of control on my non-fast days.

MazDazzle · 24/04/2018 23:12

I suppose we are a bit cut off from civilisation fortythree. The nearest town is about 20 miles away (no chance of a takeaway delivery here!).

Nailed day 2 of b2b, but like you Dark I feel like day 2 drags on a bit.

Bumped into an old acquaintance who I haven’t seen for a while. She was visibly shocked and commented on my weight loss. Best feeling ever! Grin

The Velcro toddler is still poorly, but DH is home tomorrow to help lighten the load.

Well done on resisting the cake bug!

Homemadehopeful · 24/04/2018 23:23

Well done apple. Last time I did Attach I had to leave half way through the push up / shoulder track Blush. In my defence I did have a frozen shoulder which is still ongoing to some extent but I was so bored with not being able to exercise I thought I would just give it a go. Not been back since!!

Well done on the B2B Maz and Dark. And what a lovely feeling on the NSV too Maz!!

applelolly · 25/04/2018 06:25

morning all
big well done to the b2b folks. Enjoy your breakfasts today!
dark well done on getting back in control
dazzle hope your toddler improves soon.
homemade I'd not done attack before. I went with my 18yr old dd for moral support! The push ups were a killer. Some of the folks in the class were seriously fit, dropping into planks , burpess etc. I shall aspire to that!

second nfd today for me. I need to make myself go for a longer run - Im signed up for a 10k in 2 weeks and am not nearly as prepared as I should be! Still trying to get the balance right for my eating on nfds, hopefully Ill get into a good rhythm .
Good luck to all today's fasters.

WreckTangled · 25/04/2018 07:19

Checking in for my fast day. Team meeting later so will have to use my will power to avoid all the snacks!

Iamblossom · 25/04/2018 07:23

Morning all. Still here. Bobbing about at 8 11 which is 3-4 pounds higher than I would like to be but am only managing 1 850ish fd a week at the moment and weekends have been very relaxed.

I am running a lot at the moment and it makes me super hungry.

I am trying to be better with my tdee this week, went waaay over everyday last week, and will try for a better fd next week.

As long as I stay under 9 stone I am reasonably ok with it, over that and action stations all round!

Hope you are all ok.

Blossom x

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 25/04/2018 07:48

yay thats a fab NSV maz enjoy the feeling Grin i think not having a takeaway close by is not such a bad thing,,, hope your toddler feels better soon

Good luck to all the weds fasters, nfd here today and 2nd FD tomorrow, i'm going to try and come in under tdee again today as DH wants to go out for dinner on friday to celebrate our anniversary.

You lot are all a fit bunch aren't you, I'm sat her feeling decidedly lazy as i do nowt [embarrassed]

good luck this week lamb

FriendlyGhost · 25/04/2018 07:52

I’m so impressed by those of you doing back to back fast days. Are you finding that speeds up weight loss?
A non fast day here today but i’m going to have to use all my willpower not to eat like a pig because I have been up since 3 with dd2. Of course now she’s asleep in my bed and I have to do the preschool run. Days like this make me want to eat all the food.

quackingduck222 · 25/04/2018 07:57

Morning everyone far too many posts to comment on them all but well done to all the fasters and B2Bs from yesterday.

Welcome back Peachy. And 3lbs is nothing. Also over a month you must have been very restrained. A good FD and a poop will sort that out.
I not sure how it works but would a iron supplement help?

Bug - Fionne name changed but haven’t seen her for a while. Also not seen BlueBelle for a while either hope you are both alright?

Maz well done on your B2B.

Hockney - I wouldn’t worry too much about the exact calories. If you can use MFP to get a rough idea that’s always good but I think quite a few of us estimate FD. Well done of your FD

AppleLolly - your class sounds brutal. Did you enjoy it?

Lamb - I’m running quite a bit at the moment too. A few weeks back when I really ramped up the miles I felt the same as you always hungry and I pushed my TDEE up from sedentary to 2 levels higher. The one thing I’ve really noticed is how my hunger dissapears now I’m eating quite fatty meat. I put pepperoni with my chicken and eat belly pork twice a week and tend to have Greek yoghurt most nights straight after dinner. High fat seems to have got a bad rep recently and has been labeled as the bad guy but it now seems high fat doesn’t equal being fat. but since going higher it’s worked for me. I thought I’d drop that in there incase it helps you. It is high calorie tho so when I have those meals I automatically drop carbs and have veggies instead.

MazDazzle · 25/04/2018 08:04

Last weigh in before my holiday: another 2lb off. Only 5lb from goal now. Feeling very motivated.

Remember Wreck, workplace snacks are covered in poo crumbs!

Thanks apple. He’s much better this morning.

Looking forward to a lovely NFD today. Will finish the rest of the packing and later we’re having a family meal.

Good luck to anyone fasting today.

WreckTangled · 25/04/2018 08:07

Maz they'll be M&S treats straight from the box! I will still resist though Grin have my food planned for the day so should be fine.

Gammeldragz · 25/04/2018 08:07

homemade I plan to do 4:3, but I'm having up to 800cals On FD. 2 days leaves me too much chance to forget how well I'm doing and overeat, I don't like undoing my hard work!

The b2b fast did feel harder on the second day, I ended up having a spoon of peanut butter shortly after my last post, I'm used to a higher fat diet with the LC and just really needed more fat! Still finished under 800.

Taking DH to an outpatients appointment this morning so we may go out for lunch. Problem is, my weight this morning is so good I don't want to ruin it. I may have to not weigh after fast days, because I know this isn't real, it's just because I didn't eat much for two days. It will go up after a few days eating. Maybe I should just weigh on Mondays... I found daily weighing helped me stay accountable on LC, but the fluctuations are going to be much bigger with fasting and I don't want to get discouraged. Will see how I go.

Gammeldragz · 25/04/2018 08:10

Maz that's fantastic, well done. What's your plan for maintenance? Tbh that's the part that scares me as I've always given up before I get there and then regained any weight, I kind of don't want go get to goal because I don't know how to cope with that!

quackingduck222 · 25/04/2018 08:15

OMG Maz that is fantastic news. Well done.

Gammel- if your used to weighing in daily then that’s fine I’m a daily weigher too. You will find if your using a scale app with a graph it will be up and down but have a downward trend. I use a app and have 2 profiles daily weight and weekly the weekly gives you a good overall view of the downwards trend and my daily fluctuates.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 25/04/2018 08:19

Quite relieved it's a FD today - had a bit of a bad NFD yesterday - big celebration and had 2 glasses of wine Blush
Good luck all.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 25/04/2018 08:25

excellent SV maz enjoy your holiday
gammel i think if the scales affect you negatively then most recommend weighing just once a week after the 2nd FD but looking at the loss over a longer period, like a month? I guess it depends how you cope with it, I couldn't weigh in everyday as a gain would set me off the rails....

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 25/04/2018 09:04

Have put back on another lb this morning. So am going for a swim - hope this doesn't make me too starving on my FDConfused

OohMrDarcy · 25/04/2018 09:14

Morning all....

Yesterdays FD was..... postponed. Did manage to stay under TDEE, and going to spend the next couple of days focusing on drinking lots of water and no snacking in the hope I can get back into things quickly. Will see how today goes before I decide on tomorrows planned FD.

littleladylawyer · 25/04/2018 09:38

Woo well done Maz, you're so close to goal now, must feel fab.

friendly I'm not trying to lose weight really and I never weigh myself so don't know how b2b affects rate of weight loss. From what I've gathered weight loss seems more linked to nfd eating rather than when fasts are done. Hope you manage ok today!

Good luck today smiled!

Nfds until Monday for me- I find it really easy to eat healthily and no snacking in the week, but really struggle at weekends. I think it's the lack of structure- I need to work on having a proper lunch and dinner rather than just grazing all of sat and sun.