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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 76: Your body needn‘t be a temple, but join us to stop it being a junky drive-thru.

989 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/04/2018 23:10

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 20:48

Remember everyone, you eat "normal food" on NFDs
It's just changing when you eat, i.e. moving snack food & treats to be part of meals

OP posts:
Borris · 16/05/2018 20:50

B2b day 2 completed at 606. So now have 5 nfd with dd to not go wild.

I wonder if I should buy some scales. I have been using work ones but obviously that makes first thing and naked an impossibility Grin

Hockneypool · 16/05/2018 20:51

Just checking in to say I’m still here and working towards better habits, especially the no snacking and less treats. Also trying to increase my exercise/ activity levels too.
It’s good to hear how everyone is doing.

Hockneypool · 16/05/2018 20:54

@Borris Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 20:57

Borris Grin Your career might sky-rocket Grin
but maybe play safe and buy some new scales

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 20:58

Well done on the good habits NSV, hockney

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/05/2018 21:12

Evening all, well done to all the fasters, mini-fd here on 816cals, 2nd fd planned for Fri.

Well I made it to the walking group Cheshire although it was more sedate than I expected as it's billed as a power walk, but really it was a relaxing walk through the woods, but still lovely and I was out walking for an hour Grin so will have done me some good.

Ha ha borris Grin

Homemadehopeful · 16/05/2018 21:15

NFD here and so far I'm at 1089 cals so similar to yesterday. I do have mini bottle of Prosecco (132 cals) chilling in the fridge and some greek yogurt with 10g of low sugar granola weighed out (99 cals) so if I have both of those while watching tv I will be at 1320 so still under TDEE. Have only just had dinner so think I can count them as pudding rather than snacks.

Well done all Weds fasters, especially those that were struggling this afternoon. Another NFD here tomorrow and then back to a FD on and the start of week 5 for me on Friday. How time flies when you're having fun!!!

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 16/05/2018 21:21

I'm at the end of a more successful FD2 - amazingly it was easier today. I reckon this was probably because I was mega busy. Tuna salad for lunch and a watercress soup for dinner.

I have upped the exercise this week so feeling good about that.

I could actually murder a glass of the lovely chilled white wine that is sitting in my fridge right now - but I am taking deep breaths and repeating "I can have a glass tomorrow" Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 21:35

That's an excellent excercise NSV, 43 You should be proud you took the plunge.
Walking, especially through countryside. is also good for what is termed the "executive functions" of the brain

Well done on your b2b, smiled keeping busy usually keeps your brain from thinking of its stomach

Hey, that's your 1st month finished then, homemade
You are on your way to goal, learning healthier habits too

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 16/05/2018 21:38

Evening all

Have a few more mins spare than earlier so thought I'd check in and show I've not forgotten you all!

Lots of lovely newbies, SVs and an amazing non thigh rubbing NSV! Well done all!

I have a horrendous cough / cold thing which is for some reason affecting my Asthma really badly, had to see Asthma nurse today and have new inhalers to try, a standby prescription of steroid tablets (which I'll be getting tomorrow as getting worse not better)and she even considered nebulisng me (would be a first ever for me) ... instead gave me the new inhalers and spacer etc and sent me home under instructions to do 10 puffs into it when needed... has helped but had the resulting shakes every time I've done it! Getting my steroids tomorrow as can't risk ending up in hospital and I just had a massive coughing fit and another 10 puffs after a less than 5 min chat on the phone....!

So no fasting until I'm better here!

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 21:41

I hope your asthma gets better very soon MrD Thanks
Take care of yourself with plenty of water and nourishing food

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2018 21:42

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This thread has almost filled up and I’m going to bed now, so …

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🎺🎺🎺 ..... We have a NEW 5:2 / IF Thread # 77 ..... 🎺🎺🎺
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OP posts:
cakegoblin · 17/05/2018 13:44

Hi all, just jumping quickly onto this thread before it gets too full! I have been lurking, slowly gaining confidence and picking up some fantastic tips (thank you everyone, especially BigChocFrenzy!) for a while now.

I am now on my fourth week of 5:2, have been doing it b2b as I work from home and have childcare on Thurs/Fridays and I find it easier to do on days when I'm not catering for small children. I'm 5'8", and started this at 14 stone on the day that the BMI calculator on the BBC website tipped me over into the Obese category Shock. I think if I get to 11.5 or 12 stone I will feel amazing, I just want to feel strong and healthy iykwim. I have already lost 8lb during the first 3 weeks and am now feeling for the first time like it's a habit I will really be able to stick to, hence suddenly having the confidence to post on here!

Fast day today - boiled egg and miso soup for lunch - popping out to get a few salady bits for later as I made the kids' dinner last night. All good so far, just got to avoid the wine tonight, it's definitely my weak point!

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