Brexit

[PerkyLady]

Hello.
Maybe some of you will consider this a fresh topic, but I'm interested in it nevertheless.
Did you vote for or against Brexit?
And what were your reasons?
Stay well.

Brexit was not meant to be UK severing all ties with the EU, but having the ability to look elsewhere without EU control.

Oh indeed not; Farage used to extol the Norway option and there was Daniel Hannan with "no one's talking about leaving the single market".

Which, now that the Tories are not satisfied with the Leave their one time pal Johnson delivered, is now talking about leaving the European Court of Human Rights, which was nothing to do with the EU.

But we all know this EEexpat - we have known this for ten years. If you want to keep banging the drum about how wonderful brexit is, you need to tell us some realistic benefits.

^Brexit was not meant to be UK severing all ties with the EU, but having the ability to look elsewhere without EU control.^

Well, that rather depended on who you asked, didn't it.

There were millions of different versions of Brexit, which is one of the reasons why it could never work...

Boy, I so wish we were still in the EU. DD has a place to study a Masters in sustainability in Barcelona. The hoops we have to jump through and the vast expense just to get her a year's student visa are humungous. So much paperwork to gather, get stamped by a notary, authorised by the consulate and then translated into Spanish. And to think ten years ago, it would have been a piece of cake and we'd be a good £1,000 better off (just on this one visa and insurance matter). It beggers belief. Brexit was pig-headed pensioners bashing the middle classes.

It wasn't all pensioners - me for one. Nor was it my then 93 year old MIL, who felt she wasn't qualified to make a decision, but sat down and gave it a lot of thought and decided that the country had done OK since being in the EU.

I'm not clear what relevance the revoke decision has?

No Brexit plan that Cameron or any other leader came up with would have satisfied the ERG who became ever more extreme after the referendum.

Any country can trade with the EU. Trade deals aren't remotely comparable to membership of the EU, or just the SM (enjoyed by the EEA countries). Switzerland is all but a member of the SM and, like the EEA members (Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein) is also in Schengen.

UK can’t be in Schengen as it’s a form of border control.

Canada, Japan and South Korea have free trade agreements with the EU and it doesn’t cost them a penny.

Figures vary for how many MPs were in the ERG vary from 60 to 120. Certainly not a majority.

They rightly objected to Theresa May’s pay to remain deal she signed by herself without parliamentary approval. When the legal advice became available for MPs to read, her deal was rejected three times.

The relevance of the revoke offer from the EU was that UK had the opportunity to remain in the EU. Another opportunity was presented in the 2019 general election.

@Peregrina

you need to tell us some realistic benefits.

This has been done many times on MN, but always ignored.

Lower immigration than; Germany, France, Spain and Italy.

Lower tariffs than the EU on exports to the US, the Worlds largest economy

Ability to lower tariffs on imported goods to help with cost of living. The trade deal with India will over time reduce tariffs by 99%. Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg said many times that EU tariffs on, food, clothing and footwear are high and affect the least well off in the UK the most.

Higher growth than Germany and France.

The UK services industry, which is over 80% of both UK GDP and employment, has been freed from EU control as the TCA does impose regulations like those on goods. The services sector has grown significantly since Brexit.

Other smaller examples I have seen recently are:

My Spanish SIL has to pay to enter the UK. However, with a UK passport, I don’t pay anything to visit Spain.

Not a great believer in polls, but YouGov records that 31% think they would be better off if the UK rejoined. That means 69% think they would not be better off doesn’t it?

@mugglewump

Take a look at

https://universitycompare.com/advice/studying-abroad/studying-in-spain

That non-EU students will pay higher tuition fees than natives, more fool the Spanish for making it more difficult.

Bit like the EES for non-EU tourists. Portugal and Greece soon dumped it then they realised it was costing them money.

Quote : "Not a great believer in polls, but YouGov records that 31% think they would be better off if the UK rejoined. That means 69% think they would not be better off doesn’t it?"

That is an eye catching claim. If fact, it is so eye catching that it is a claim that needs checking. I checked it, and here is what I got.

Is this the full line here :

• Britons expect that rejoining the EU would have benefits to the UK economy, but just 31% feel it would improve their household finances

Is that the line where you got your 31% from ? If so, did it not feel a wee bit dishonest changing it ? Or maybe you just got that figure from another site and never checked it ?

And no. 31% of people saying one thing does not mean 69% say the opposite.

Source :

What do Britons think of Brexit, 10 years since the referendum? (yougov.com)

Lower immigration than; Germany, France, Spain and Italy.

For a country with an aging population this assumes that immigration is bad.

Lower tariffs than the EU on exports to the US, the Worlds largest economy

Wonderful if your trade with the EU has been destroyed - just export to the USA instead!

Ability to lower tariffs on imported goods to help with cost of living.

Let's see that. Only this morning I heard someone on the BBC saying that they hoped they would see help with the cost of living when Burnham takes over. (Don't hold your breath.)

And so on, from someone who lives abroad as an immigrant.

@RedTagAlan

Looking backwards in time does not help as time only moves forward. The detail that YouGov listed was:

The public, though, are less convinced that they themselves would benefit. Just 31% of Britons believe their household finances would be improved by the UK rejoining the EU, relative to 32% who expect it would make no difference and 17% who feel they would be worse off if the UK returned to the EU fold.

So, 20% did not express a view. 32 + 17 =49% who think they won’t be better off which is higher than the 31% who think they will be better off.

Regards a rejoin, 35% are in favour if UK has the same opt outs as before.

Based on the above, how will the minority, who think they will be better off by rejoining the EU, convince a majority who think they won’t be better off?

@Peregrina

UK exports of services to both EU and non-EU countries fell in 2020 but have grown strongly since then.

In 2025, UK exports of services to the EU were 28% above their 2019 level in real terms. Exports to non-EU countries were 26% above their 2019 level.

Source:

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7851/

So, your statement that trade with the EU has beens destroyed is incorrect.

Ah right. So when you said above, Quote : "Not a great believer in polls, but YouGov records that 31% think they would be better off if the UK rejoined. "

So it was that poll I found, where you got your 31% from.
The poll that said : "but just 31% feel it would improve their household finances", and you changed that to "31% think they would be better off if the UK rejoined."

It's a bit of a dishonest change is it not ? At best it is massive mis-representation of the facts . And an argument from authority fallacy failure. Because you made out it was a real bit of data from a respected pollster. But you changed it.

Why did you change it?

The thing is of course, it is shameless dishonesty that got us into this mess in the first place, and the Brexiters are still doing it.

Nowhere did I state that all trade with the EU had been destroyed.

My objection is to the glib brexiter statements that suppose that your trade with a near neighbour can easily be replaced by trade across an ocean.

@Peregrina

From your post today at 11:18

Wonderful if your trade with the EU has been destroyed - just export to the USA instead!

The words has been is past tense.

your trade with a near neighbour can easily be replaced by trade across an ocean.

Brexit was not about severing all ties with the EU. That there is a TCA between EU and UK is proof of that.

@RedTagAlan

So, improved household finances is not being better off?

Did you change the wording of that poll result ? That is all I am asking. A straight yes or no is all that is needed really.

This poll.

What do Britons think of Brexit, 10 years since the referendum? (yougov.com)

The poll that says

• 57% of Britons think the UK was wrong to vote to leave the EU, including 23% of Leave voters

And this :

• Britons expect that rejoining the EU would have benefits to the UK economy, but just 31% feel it would improve their household finances

Did you change the latter statement ?

Brexit was not about severing all ties with the EU.

That was what was assumed by most before the referendum but once the vote was won it became "Everything about the EU is bad, we want nothing to do with it". Which is still the opinion of the extreme Brexiters, who now they have Johnson's Brexit want to go after the ECHR.

Why they should want to be in the same camp as Belorussia is a mystery to many of us.

@RedTagAlan

No changes made, but a reasonable assumption that improved household finances is very like being better off. If it is not, then the poll shows:

31% improved household finances, but not better off.

So, I don’t see them supporting a rejoin. Why if not better off?

32% no change.

So, I don’t see them supporting a rejoin. Why if it makes no difference?

17% worse off. So, I don’t see them supporting a rejoin.

Rather than cling to the 57% that think it was wrong to leave, which is looking backwards in time. Why not look at what people think should happen going forwards?

@Peregrina

Everything about the EU is bad, we want nothing to do with it"
.
Is there a quote or link for that statement

Which is still the opinion of the extreme Brexiters, who now they have Johnson's Brexit want to go after the ECHR.

Many countries want the ECHR to be reformed.

Twenty-seven Council of Europe member states (including EU members such as Italy, Denmark, Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland) backed ECHR reforms. They officially supported a political declaration at the May 2026 summit in Chișinău, Moldova, to ease the deportation of foreign offenders convicted of serious crimes. Source is:

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinktank/en/document/EPRS_BRI(2026)782643

So you found the poll, and it had this line "

"but just 31% feel it would improve their household finances"

You done Ctrl C, and when you did Ctrl V, it became :

"31% think they would be better off if the UK rejoined."

Fair enough. Seems different to me though. Significantly different.

Rees-Mogg claimed that food and clothing prices would come down 20% as a result of Brexit.

Was he lying or is he as thick as a plank?

Lying I would think because I don't think Rees Mogg is thick.

Remember also how certain factions wanted all laws which had come from the EU to be repealed, regardless of whether they were good laws or whether the UK had sponsored them? This is an example of "EU bad."

which I put in quotes, not because one person actually said that but to make it clear it's not my opinion.

@hoopyvest

Rees-Mogg claimed that food and clothing prices would come down 20% as a result of Brexit.

The quote I can find is :

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/831450/Jacob-Rees-Mogg-Brexit-food-wine-clothes-shoes-lower-20-per-cent

The word “could” was used as opposed to “would”. The 20% was by removing tariffs imposed by the EU on imports from countries such as, Brazil, India and the US.

However, that statement was made in 2017. Long before energy prices have soared around the world. So, the cost to countries who could sell food and clothing cheaper has increased. Also the cost of transport from those countries to the UK has increased.

Rachel Reeves has recently reduced tariffs on 100 supermarket items which are imported. Something that could not be done had the UK been San EU member. However, she has no way of reducing energy and transports which has increased the cost of supply.

Maybe it’s time for remain supporters to remember that there have been many significant events, which could not be known when David Cameron won the election in 2015, that have increased the cost of energy and hence everything else that relies upon energy.

Over half our clothing imports in 2017 were already tariff-free, so it's hard to avoid the conclusion that he was either lying or (more likely) didn't know what he was talking about

@hoopyvest

The clothing industry also requires vast energy for weaving, dyeing, shipping and retail.