Brexit

[PerkyLady]

Hello.
Maybe some of you will consider this a fresh topic, but I'm interested in it nevertheless.
Did you vote for or against Brexit?
And what were your reasons?
Stay well.

I voted against as I believed we benefitted from being in the EU and there were no reasons to leave. I was right. Leaving has been hugely damaging to the economy and will continue to be so. The Tories were idiots to hold that referendum and they proved they can't be trusted with the economy.

I will caveat this by saying I’m not British nor do I live in Britain.

However my opinion all along is that you don’t ask people who don’t understand economics to make a decision on economics.

The referendum was the result of infighting and posturing. Idiotic decisions were made all round and now your entire country is suffering because of it.

@Tobacco

The Liberal Democrat’s 2019 manifesto was to revoke Article 50, but they didn’t win the 2019 general election.

I voted to Remain. I think it's pretty obvious to most people now that leaving was a massive mistake, it's just a shame that the leavers chose to dismiss the warnings as "Project Fear". I will never forgive them.

Of course, there are a few dimwits who believe that Brexit was done and dusted a few years ago and fail to even recognise its contributions to our current malaise, but you can't really do much about that level of stupidity.

@MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack

For information, Article 50 was triggered by 498 MPs on 29 March 2017. So, it was MPs who took the UK out of the EU, not those who voted leave in June 2016.

Had the same number of people who voted remain (16.1 million) in 2016 voted for the Liberal Democrat’s in the 2019 general election, the UK wouldn’t have left the EU.

So, if you are looking to blame someone, ask those who voted remain in 2016 why they didn’t vote for the Liberal Democrat’s in 2019.

I voted Remain because I love Europe and I believed Brexit would damage the economy. I was right.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make?

Obviously, the MPs voted to trigger Article 50. And they did so because of the referendum result.

And obviously, the Lib Dems didn't get elected in 2019 because not enough people voted for them. Rightly or wrongly, many people who believed that leaving the EU was an absolutely terrible idea also believed that we should abide by the democratic decision to leave, and so they did not support the Lib Dem's plan to ignore the referendum result.

The question should never have been put to the electorate in the first place, given that most of them didn't understand the issues they were voting about. But of course those of us who could see it was going to be a car crash will not easily forgive those who chose to drive us right into that car crash. They were warned, and they chose to ignore the warnings. And I'm still angry about that.

@MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack

Obviously, the MPs voted to trigger Article 50. And they did so because of the referendum result.

As per the 2015 EU referendum act, there was no obligation to accept the result of the 2016 referendum.

wrongly, many people who believed that leaving the EU was an absolutely terrible idea also believed that we should abide by the democratic decision to leave

In 2018, the EU advised the UK they would accept a unilateral withdrawal of Article 50. So, the option to cancel Brexit was on the table.

But of course those of us who could see it was going to be a car crash will not easily forgive those who chose to drive us right into that car crash.

The names of the 498 MPs who voted to leave the EU are known. So, blame them.

The question should never have been put to the electorate in the first place, given that most of them didn't understand the issues they were voting about

Another WE KNOW BETTER remain slogan.

The only qualification to vote is to be over 18 and make the effort to vote.

Again, I'm not really sure what the point is that you're trying to make?

You're right, people don't need any real qualifications to vote, other than to meet the age requirements and to turn up.

You seem to be saying that people therefore bear no responsibility for the consequences of their vote?

Personally, I don't agree. I think people should own the consequences of the choices that they make.

@MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack

Points were:

UK left the EU due to the vote cast by 498 MPs to trigger Article 50, not because of the 2016 Referendum.

Voters were given the chance to revoke Article 50 in the 2019 general election, but chose of their own free to decline the offer.

I think people should own the consequences of the choices that they make

So, tell the 498 MPs that Brexit is their fault. Their names can be found on:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/article-50-parliament-mps-vote-brexit-theresa-may-eu-negotiations-labour-conservative-how-voted-a7558291.html

You just keep repeating yourself.

We know that the majority of MPs voted to trigger Article 50. We also know that, amongst those MPs who voted to trigger Article 50, many were passionate supporters of remaining in the EU. So why exactly do you think they voted for something that was direct contrary to their own personal beliefs?

What do you think would have happened if MPs had decided to vote in line with their beliefs and ignore the referendum result?

I think the referendum result shows that many people are too dumb to vote. I wonder if in future voting should be restricted to those who have a university degree?

Remain.

Because I'm not an idiot.

I was quite polite at the time but there's no benefit to polite discussion now. It was stupid and it still is.

@MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack

What do you think would have happened if MPs had decided to vote in line with their beliefs and ignore the referendum result?

They had the right to ignore the result, but didn’t.

Likewise, the electorate had the opportunity to cancel Brexit in 2019, but didn’t.

@MaybeNotBob

All you ever do is to throw out insults to any who has a different view to yours.

@1457bloom

I wonder if in future voting should be restricted to those who have a university degree?

Why not return to Victorian times and limit voting to wealthy white males only?

My view is that anyone who is a taxpayer is entitled to vote.

@MrsTerryPratchett

I was quite polite at the time but there's no benefit to polite discussion now. It was stupid and it still is.

Is there any evidence that rudeness and insults have changed peoples’ minds?

So you think it would have been perfectly fine to hold a referendum, offering the electorate a simple binary choice between leave and remain, and for our elected MPs to then just disregard the result?

My own view is that, if you're going to ignore a referendum result if the electorate picks the "wrong" option, then just don't hold the referendum in the first place. It shouldn't have ever happened, and it only did happen because Cameron was trying to manage his own party.

Obviously, we know that it was technically only "advisory" in nature, but realistically, it was never a realistic possibility that the result would just be ignored. I still don't know why you're so eager to hide behind this technicality, it seems pretty pointless.

@GlobeTrotter2000 How do you define "taxpayer"?

Pretty much all adults pay one sort of tax or another, so you might as well just say that all adults should be allowed to vote?

I voted Remain. When I think of the lies spread by prominent Brexit campaigners in order to "get Brexit over the line", I feel dismayed that this is now common knowledge yet many people simply don't care that they were lied to.

I was horrified when the referendum result came in. I knew Brexit would be bad, but it's been worse than I expected. I didn't know then that we'd leave the single market, that Scotland would be forced to leave despite every area voting Remain, that we'd even withdraw from the Erasmus scheme and worst of all, that Putin would be rubbing his hands with glee at our stupidity.

GlobalGPT doesn't pay tax anyway, as apparently it live in Bulgaria...

@MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack

So you think it would have been perfectly fine to hold a referendum, offering the electorate a simple binary choice between leave and remain, and for our elected MPs to then just disregard the result?

UK joined the EEC on 1 January 1973 without a referendum held beforehand. As per the 2015 EU referendum act there was no obligation to follow the outcome of a referendum. This was amplified by the Gina Miller case which established that the UK couldn’t leave the EU without an act of Parliament and the government did not have right to trigger article 50 by themselves on the outcome of a referendum.

so you might as well just say that all adults should be allowed to vote?

UK law defines adult as aged 18 and above. Likewise, eligibility to vote is to be 18 and above. So, all adults are allowed to vote.

I voted remain. And I still despair of the fact we even had the referendum in the first place. Aside from everything else, implementing it was always going to cost a tonne of money that could have been spent on public services instead of lawyers. It’s been even worse than I expected and I had low hopes to start with. I did assume that pragmatism would hold given the slim vote margins and negative financial implications and we’d get a soft Brexit. Wrong again!

@MaybeNotBob

GlobalGPT doesn't pay tax anyway, as apparently it live in Bulgaria...

Wrong again. UK source income such as; dividends, interest on savings and rental profits are subject to UK tax regardless of residency. Under the double taxation agreement between Bulgaria and UK, tax paid in the UK is subtracted from tax to be paid in Bulgaria.

Thank you for that random selection of irrelevant information.

The pp was right. I should have just ignored you as you are not actually engaging in a meaningful way with anything.

I don't think you can be an AI bot though, because the "I" bit seems to be glaringly absent - at least ChatGPT usually answers the actual question and its responses make a bit more sense.

I voted to Brexit, I don't regret it.

@Whatabouterry

And I still despair of the fact we even had the referendum in the first place.

Article 50 was not triggered by the outcome of the 2016 referendum, but by act of parliament in 2017 in accordance with UK law.

Voters were given the opportunity to revoke article 50 in the 2019 general election, but of their own free will chose not to accept the offer.

There is no such thing as hard or soft Brexit. You either leave or remain. Sadly, the government at the time of negotiations came up with a half in and half out deal to the detriment of both EU and UK.