Brexit

[PerkyLady]

Hello.
Maybe some of you will consider this a fresh topic, but I'm interested in it nevertheless.
Did you vote for or against Brexit?
And what were your reasons?
Stay well.

@RedTagAlan

So now you are suggesting we can't rejoin anyway. Ahh well, that makes it worse.

No such suggestion was made. Article 49 is the mechanism to rejoin. My view is that an application to rejoin does not guarantee acceptance.

You and anyone else can believe it’s possible to know how dead people voted, but the figures in the 2025-12-10 article don’t align with the 9 June 2026 poll which listed estimates taken from people who are not dead. Different figures for the same subject is one of the reasons I don’t have confidence in polls or estimates.

If they are accurate, why has UK parliament not already had a vote on whether or not to rejoin the EU? A question I have several times on MN, but so far not answered.

She was a lifelong racist unfortunately. Having lived in many countries herself including apartheid SA. Didn't believe in immigration. Except her own I assume.

@Talkinpeace

Did the person you spoke to kick themselves out after the referendum?

Teaching David Cameron a lesson seems to be Boris Johnson’s reason to campaign for leave. Watch the BBC documentary titled Brexit - A very British civil war. Johnson stated that he wanted to beat Cameron at something as he could not beat him at tennis when they were at Eton. He also said he didn’t think leave would win.

Regards pensions, people who have paid into a scheme are entitled to receive a pension.
Wasn’t part of the money paid by UK to EU meant to cover EU pensions?

Reasons parliament hasn't asked for another vote. Off the top of my head.

Brexit was divisive and caused damage to us as a country. Doing that again so soon is irresponsible.

We aren't a direct democracy. Constant referenda are costly and change the nature of British democracy.

It makes us look fucking stupid.

The country is in a parlius state and just rejoining, with a worse deal, won't instantly solve that.

Enough or do you want more?

The UK are still paying into the pension pot for MEPs etc. That was part of the deal.

Up until 2064 as per the OBR.

Oh and just because I think it speaks to something interesting. The average tenue of a British PM has plummeted about 60-70% since Brexit.

We've started treating politics as a popularity contest and I think Brexit is the reason.

@MrsTerryPratchett

I too think a deal would not be the same as before. Hence, a rejoin would not be worth the time and cost to attempt.

I don’t remember any of main parties 2024 manifestos saying they would rejoin the EU.

Is that a Brexit benefit then ? That we can't rejoin.

Seems a bit abstract to me.

Any more benefits ? Abstract or not.

@RedTagAlan

UK can apply to rejoin, but it’s not a guarantee that EU would accept. Mixed signals from the EU as provided in previous posts.

It makes us look fucking stupid.

That ship has sailed. We don’t need to worry about it. I don’t think the damage and division stirred up by Brexit has gone away either.

I agree though that if we tried to rejoin, it would stir things up again and if no other EU country vetoed our application (unlikely), we would have to accept an awful deal.

It does not have to be a full rejoin. I thought Norway and Switzerland renegotiate their particular deals and access to the single market every 10-15 years. We are in that category now. We have to stick with Norway and Switzerland and other countries in the same position.

In any event, it was clear to everyone with half a brain that once you are “out” you will be renegotiating your particular deals intermittently with the EU. That is just a fact of life.

I’d be happy with a Norway/Switzerland type of agreement.

It wouldn’t be as good as being an EU member, because we wouldn’t have a vote or power of veto, but it would be better than the agreement we have now.

Norway and Canada type deals were talked about in the early days, but seemed to disappear after the 2017 general election. A group of MPs spent two and half years trying to cancel the vote cast on 29 March 2017.

That the UK has had a string of PMs who voted to remain doesn’t help either.

Cameron - remain
May - remain
Johnson - leave, but no plan how to implement
Truss - remain
Sunak - ?
Starmer - remain
Burnham - remain

That the UK has had a string of PMs who voted to remain doesn’t help either.
Johnson - leave, but no plan how to implement

Funnily enough, not a single leader of the Leave campaign had the remotest inkling of an iota of an idea of a plan either...

@MaybeNotBob

Funnily enough, not a single leader of the Leave campaign had the remotest inkling of an iota of an idea of a plan either...

Implementation of a policy can only be done by those in power. Other than Boris Johnson, who drove the red bus around the country, which of the leave proponents have been PM since the 2016 referendum?

It didn't stop them from having a plan they could have presented.

The only thing that stopped them presenting a plan is that there never was a way of doing it that wasn't going to be a catastrophe. And Johnson, Gove, et al knew that, which was why they looked so appalled that they'd actually won the referendum. The likes of Farage never had a plan because he's only interested in making sweeping populist statements and grifting.

It boils down to the fact that it was the stupidest thing the country could have done, because it was always going to fuck us all over.

@MaybeNotBob

Cameron was the PM who offered a referendum. Remain campaign issued the booklet to every household in the UK which included the statement, with my emphasis underlined.

This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide.

Delivery is the responsibility of the person who made the offer. Not the person, or persons, who accepted the offer. For example, I place an order for a car, it’s the duty of the dealer to deliver it, not me.

The outcome of the referendum was set aside by the Miller case. This required the decision whether or not the UK should leave or remain in the EU had to be made by Parliament. 498 MPs voted to leave. 114 voted to remain. The 498 were mostly Conservative and Labour.

So, logically each of the 498 should have had a plan on how to leave the EU.

The general election on 8 June 2017 was 42% conservative and 40% labour. Both parties committed to honour the decision to leave the EU. That so, they too should have had a plan.

https://www.cep.eu/eu-topics/details/the-uk-governments-brexit-white-paper.html

Is in one of the several white papers for UK strategy for leaving the EU.

However, Labour went back on their word and switched to being a remain party in the hope they could force and win a general election.

So, if you are looking for people to blame, I wound say the order would be

1st

Cameron making an offer without a delivery plan.

2nd

Labour for changing their mind in 2017.

You think you're ordering a Mercedes, and they deliver you a clown car, you need to go back and look at what you actually bought...

Good comparison. But in this case, they knew it was a clown car they were selling.....

Johnson was in power and implemented the WA, NIP and TCA - ie Brexit.

Interestingly enough a Leave voting friend was making noises about how we should be more closely allied with the EU but stop short of joining.

That is a big change from her attitude 5 years ago.

@MaybeNotBob

You think you're ordering a Mercedes, and they deliver you a clown car, you need to go back and look at what you actually bought...

The offer was leave or remain. Leave was chosen by 498 MPs (AKA UK law makers).

As per Article 50, there are only two ways to leave the EU,

With a deal, or

Without a deal.

Article 50 does not specify what a deal must be. Likewise, it doesn’t say that if a deal can’t be made, the member that triggered Article 50 is obligated to revoke.

@hoopyvest

Johnson was in power and implemented the WA, NIP and TCA - ie Brexit.

True, but he was not the person who made the statement in 2013 that if he won the 2015 general there would be an EU referendum. It was Cameron, a remain supporter, as he was the joint PM at the time and the PM in 2015. So, he was the one who should have had a plan before the referendum date was given.

The EU offered a unilateral revoke in 2018. Link is

https://curia.europa.eu/site/upload/docs/application/pdf/2018-12/cp180191en.pdf

but not accepted by UK.

@Peregrina

Interestingly enough a Leave voting friend was making noises about how we should be more closely allied with the EU but stop short of joining.

Brexit was not meant to be UK severing all ties with the EU, but having the ability to look elsewhere without EU control.

Switzerland has said they will never be a full EU member, but has been able to trade with the EU. Likewise, Canada, Japan and South Korea each have free trade deals with the EU and it doesn’t cost them a penny.