Brexit MegaThread - part 14

[Peregrina]

Thread 13. We had a debate about whether there should be a new one but if no one answers this the whole series after 8 years plus will come to their end.

Brexit happened, although one time Leavers do not seem to appreciate this.
It's worth noting I think that Brexit was a Tory initiative and the Tory party has just received its worse electoral thrashing since 1832. Could it be entirely unrelated?

What next? A gradual rapprochement with the EU? A Norway style agreement?

Yes, in an actual vote, not an opinion poll.
At 4.5 years, your definition of "immediately" is different from mine

Ah, the "overwhelming" majority.

Funny how it wouldn't be if it went against Brexshiteers...

So all the "polls" that were used to procure the referendum should have been ignored.

I would quite happily ignore all and every poll from hereon in. Sort of I won't show you mine if you don't show me yours. Maybe that could be a thread rule ? No polls. Of course you'd need to be careful saying that. Some people might get the wrong idea.

These Brexiters just can't get over the fact that they are sore winners, can they?

The trouble is, they are sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting "I can't hear you!" when they are finding out what, exactly, they've won...

52% isn't an overwhelming majoirty. It wasn't in 2016, it wouldn't be now, it is however, definitely enough to enact the result. Polls didn't "procure" a referendum, the Conservative manifesto in 2015 did.

In othet news!! Brexit Benefit Klaxon!! 📢 Gina Miller can get in the bin!

Party's Over For Gina Miller – Guido Fawkes (order-order.com)

Of course 52% is an overwhelming majority. It's the Willy of the People dontcha know...

It was enough that judges were THE ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE for discussing it.

52% isn't an overwhelming majoirty.

It was treated as though it was politically.
If Remain had won by 52% the Leave voters would still have been bellyaching about it. But - wait. You Leavers are still bellyaching about it.

For about the millionth time. If you hold a referendum with 2 outcomes,
a) Remain and b) Leave and more people vote for Leave, then any outcome other than leaving simple isn't legit.

I'm sure you wanted the govt to say "you've got it wrong Britain, we'll Remain anyway" or use some get out about "advisory" to avoid implementing a result you didn't like, but they didn't. Well Parliament did, they screwed arounf for 4 years, trying to come up with a ruse to overrule the result but eventually admitted defeat.

As ever, turn the thing round. Put the outcome you wanted in the winning/majority position and consider whether it would have been legit to enact the losing position even though it lost. If you think that's legit, you're not a democrat.

Anyhow, I'm getting so tired of rehashing arguments from 6-8 years ago now. How about we move the convo on to what might happen in the future rather than re-hashing the past over and over.

What might happen in the future?

Well according to JRM in about 45 years time we will finally see some benefits

How about we move the convo on to what might happen in the future rather than re-hashing the past over and over.

Good idea, let's rejoin and try to start fixing the absolute clustercatastrophe that Brexshit has been.

And imprison those who deliberately and knowingly lied to the British people.

Bit of a shame that the first couple of responses to my last post were so dismissive.

Yelling "rejoin" at me might be satisfying for you but it's not going to help us have a sensible conversation about the future.

Seems like we're just shouting past each other the whole time, which is sad.

A bit like all the "you lost, get over it" stuff we had to put up with.

I still don't know what your contribution is, other than "I hate all foreigners"...

And something about choice in cheaper poor quality products from the other side of the world

>If you hold a referendum with 2 outcomes,
a) Remain and b) Leave and more people vote for Leave, then any outcome other than leaving simple isn't legit.

Yes, but surely a 52/48 vote is for the equivalent of a vote to get a little bit out not a vote to get as far out as possible and have nothing to do with anything EU related - which is what the Tories executed? (especially given the ambiguity of the question and the campaign obfuscation.)

If the vote had been say 70/30 then what transpired could have been justified.

I am loving how you've summarised this with some things I've never said on here or anywhere else and questioning my contribution. I think I've contributed plenty to these threads over 8 plus years.

You could always ask me for another contribution? Go on, ask me a question.

You cannot be "a little bit out" you're either in the EU, or you're not and the vote was for not.

Having a deal with the EU to continue a relationship via the TCA in no way equates to "have nothing to do with anything EU related". No deal would plausibly have been that, what we have is not.

What might happen in the future?

And again, you're rerunning the arguements from years ago, and you've pulled me into doing it again too. What do people want next?

I would have liked for Brexit being a success and not the clusterfuck it is

Now, you want to discuss what might happen in the future, so why don't you tell us that?

Clearly I can't tell you what is going to happen. I can speculate on what might. I predict that the new U.K. goverment will make moves to bring the U.K back into a closer realtionship with the EU.

While nothing concrete has changed yet, I expect it will, maybe not in this Parliament but we'll see. They've appeared to say no to rejoining of the CU/SM but I honestly don't believe their statements on this.

For lots of you on here, I imagine the changes our new government might make will bring you cheer. I think they are going to be disastrous.

But aren't we asking what you want to see happen? Not what you vaguely intuit might happen from reading Daily Mail tweets.

I think they are going to be disastrous.

I fail to see how you can say this since at the moment changes are largely undefined.

I assume that a somewhat closer arrangement will be forged which you won't want. This is a little rich considering how Brexit has gone. No, it's no good blaming Remainers for the Brexit you got - Johnson chased them out of his party. Although strangely enough they all either did a runner before the election e.g. Gove, or got booted out.

That's not what Duncintoffees question said.
If you want me to answer yours I'm happy to.