Are there any Brexiters left?

[Miljea]

... on here, or more or less anywhere on SM? The last entry on 'Leave Means Leave' is months old. Though I understand most sites are 'member only', now....

I am really quite surprised how they more or less evaporated on MN! They appear to be gone!

Why?

Was I an idiot to respond to so many, like, off the top of my head, mummmytime? Were they a bot??

The Arms collapsed. The victors are, well... gone!

Why is that?

Anyone who knows me will know I am a Remainer, but I patiently read, often 500 threads!- pros and cons, to 'get a handle' on the direction of travel.

However, now absolutely no one, bar Clav, is standing up for Leave.

I find the silence more chilling than the arguing.

No point you complaining about Brexit then.

I'm not spending my time complaining about it.

@Caroncanta

No point you complaining about Brexit then.

I'm not spending my time complaining about it.

You re a leaver then?

Caroncanta - you have no idea what you're talking about. The people who couldn't vote because of the 15 year rule came abroad at different times and under different rules so your point doesn't make sense. In any case, nobody is having a hissy fit as you so patronisingly put it, just pointing out that a so-called democratic vote is not actually democratic if arguably the people most immediately affected by the outcome are not allowed to participate.

You re a leaver then

Nope. I voted remain. I just don't choose to spend my time complaining and blaming about the things I cannot change.

you have no idea what you're talking about.

Actually I think I do know what I'm talking about. But those who fell under the 15 year rule did exactly that.

@Caroncanta

You re a leaver then

Nope. I voted remain. I just don't choose to spend my time complaining and blaming about the things I cannot change.

But you are on here and arguing about voting rights circa 4 years ago!

I'm not arguing.

This post has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

I was posting an update to legal action related to the Shindler case which had been updated today (unless the date changes daily?) but perhaps I am not allowed to link to a crowdfunder site.

Spotted this instead;

the3million Feb 2020;
"The Prime Minister [Boris Johnson] has written to voting rights campaigner Harry Shindler to confirm he is scrapping the rule which prevented our British friends to vote in UK elections if they had left the country for more than 15 years."

“Now we have left the EU, it is more important than ever to strengthen the UK’s ties with the British expat community,” the Prime Minister wrote. But the letter did not say when detailed plans will be announced.

But anyway. I'll leave you to it for now. Enjoy your peaceful and civilised debate.

You've completely missed the point if you think people should have found out about the 15 year rule, passed in 2002 before they left the UK fifty years ago! So now you expect everyone to be clairvoyant too? Either it was fair to exclude British citizens or it wasn't. Clue: it wasn't.

Now we have left the EU, it is more important than ever to strengthen the UK’s ties with the British expat community,”
More important than ever? What more important than when their livelihoods and right to residence depended on it? I don't know anybody who has anything but contempt for Johnson and his government now.

And the right for British citizens abroad to vote had been discussed and promised for years and it still wasn't implemented by 2016.

You've completely missed the point if you think people should have found out about the 15 year rule, passed in 2002 before they left the UK fifty years ago! So now you expect everyone to be clairvoyant too? Either it was fair to exclude British citizens or it wasn't. Clue: it wasn't

Well if they left after 1989 they would have potentially fallen under the 20 year rule granted. Before that though it was even more limited than the 15 year rule. So yeah. I would expect those people to know, even the ones from 50 years ago. Although if they've been out of the country for 50 years then I'm not sure they should be voting on the future of a country they cut ties with for a majority of their life anyway.

Although if they've been out of the country for 50 years then I'm not sure they should be voting on the future of a country they cut ties with for a majority of their life anyway.
But the USA allows its citizens all over the world to vote for their whole lives.

I wonder what the UK is scared of

That's the point. They didn't cut ties. You really don't get it.

That's the point. They didn't cut ties. You really don't get it.

I suspect its actually you that doesn't get it tbh. After all you are the one who seems to be surprised about the 15 year rule applying to you when you left the country for longer than that period.

@Caroncanta

I'm not arguing.

Yes you are.

Its all pointless in any case, we can't rewind time.

Put it this way, if you moved from say England to Scotland, married a scotsman and then England voted to make it illegal for you to live there and very difficult to move back. , wouldn't you be a tiny bit pissed off?

Plus let's not forget that hundreds of thousands of Commonwealth citizens not directly affected by Brexit had a vote, while British citizens directly affected did not.

It's not about me being surprised. I am not surprised. I am pointing out that everytime someone refers to this as a democratic process. This. Is. Not. What. Real. Democracy. Looks. Like.

Yes I would be pissed off. Because it's still part of the UK and I'd still be paying taxes to the UK. I still have a vested interest as a UK citizen and am paying into the country that I'm getting a vote in. Whilst if I left the UK, didn't pay taxes for 15 years or more, and had, set up home elsewhere pretty much permanently, I would be less surprised.

American citizens are still required to pay taxes to the USA even if they live elsewhere. It would seem somewhat unreasonable if they didn't get a vote in their country under those circumstances.

Ok. So you are saying only tax payers should have the right to vote.

American citizens are still required to pay taxes to the USA even if they live elsewhere
No they are required to make a tax declaration. If they don't pay tax, they still have a vote. You seem a little hazy on details.

Whilst if I left the UK, didn't pay taxes for 15 years or more, and had, set up home elsewhere pretty much permanently,
Again you are just demonstrating that you don't actually know how any of this works. You can stop digging a hole now! 😆

Ok. So you are saying only tax payers should have the right to vote.

Not necessarily. It's one factor. British citizens who live in the UK and are unable to pay tax obviously have the right to vote here too. I believe the judgement about the 15 year rule discussed UK citizens who had settled in, and paid tax in different countries, formed part of the decision making process not to change the ruling.