Are there any Brexiters left?

[Miljea]

... on here, or more or less anywhere on SM? The last entry on 'Leave Means Leave' is months old. Though I understand most sites are 'member only', now....

I am really quite surprised how they more or less evaporated on MN! They appear to be gone!

Why?

Was I an idiot to respond to so many, like, off the top of my head, mummmytime? Were they a bot??

The Arms collapsed. The victors are, well... gone!

Why is that?

Anyone who knows me will know I am a Remainer, but I patiently read, often 500 threads!- pros and cons, to 'get a handle' on the direction of travel.

However, now absolutely no one, bar Clav, is standing up for Leave.

I find the silence more chilling than the arguing.

^Again you are just demonstrating that you don't actually know how any of this works. You can stop digging a hole now

Bless ya. I bet you check rules a lot more carefully these days right?

No they are required to make a tax declaration

If they earn over the threshold then they pay 😂

Anyway I'm leaving you to it now. Enjoy. 😉

@Peregrina

Yes loads of people cite this one despite having never have done either of these things. With the right skills and qualifications no doubt those opportunities will still be available.

I know a lot of people who have done this, and yes they are well educated and have the right skills. But it's all got much more difficult for them than it was. Before hand - apply for a job, go, start. Now - well with a few weeks to go we don't know exactly what will be required. Will our qualifications be recognised? Will we need a visa? If a German firm has a need for a scientist and there is a choice between a French person or Swedish person, who can start as soon as they have worked their notice, or a UK one who needs a visa which takes (how long? we don't know.), who are they going to hire?

I get your point on this but probably science isn’t the bst analogy to use.

Considering the UK still has some of the best/most recognised universities in the world when it comes to Science & Informatics, I’m sure a German employer would be more inclined to wait for the right talent to start with them than just putting a bum in a seat to start more quickly.

What do you think they do with American scientists who interview and are successful for a post in Europe?

However, same can’t be said for other industry sectors - so I do catch your drift.

OK - it would depend on the level of skill of the scientist. For an experienced researcher with say 10 years post doc experience it might be worth the wait; for someone much less experienced, the answer will be 'sorry no, we need someone right now'.

Or take another example - a real live one from the last 18 months: a language school requires a qualified English teacher. Had been let down by a Canadian whose visa hadn't come through. Current British person - interview Saturday, can you start Monday? Yes, I can be there tomorrow. Will that be the same next year? - At present, we don't know the rules - if a proper deal is struck (which was 'oven ready, don't forget!) then maybe it will still hold. If not and there is an Irish candidate who can also jump on a plane on the Sunday, ready for the Monday start, who are they going to take?

Or the young person just finishing school/university and fancies a gap year. At present they can just buy a ticket, go, and then try to get work. Usually there will be a formality like registering for the equivalent of a Nat Ins No, but then start. Will this be the same outside the EU/transition period with no deal/poor deal? Again, we don't know. (OK Covid has mucked this up during the last year, but that applies across the world.)

Both real examples from the last few years that I personally know.

I’m sure a German employer would be more inclined to wait for the right talent to start with them than just putting a bum in a seat to start more quickly.
That argument only works for the top elite in each field. You might not have noticed but the job market is very competitive. British candidates are not sought after nowadays- too much hassle. I already see this where I work. Very good news for Irish job applicants though!

Caroncanta - have you ever actually worked abroad because you certainly have a very vague completely wrong idea of how everything works. But then again, nobody likes an expert anymore so your moment has come!

Biden's first phone call with a foreign leader was 25 mins long with Boris Johnson. The British Government has been speaking with Biden's team for months already.

Considering the UK still has some of the best/most recognised universities in the world when it comes to Science & Informatics, I’m sure a German employer would be more inclined to wait for the right talent to start with them than just putting a bum in a seat to start more quickly.

It will depend how specialised the role is. If it's just a bog standard entry level role typically filled at M.Sc level then the German employer will have a pool of candidates who don't need a work permit.

As an aside, they do have universities and engineering schools in Europe and in fact STEM graduates in Europe are far more likely than U.K. students to be enrolled onto 5 year masters level courses.

For very specialised roles, employers will continue to import expertise if they need to and this applied to both European and U.K. employers. My U.K. employer (large high tech multinational co) routinely recruits from outside the EU, despite how difficult it is, because if you want someone to do cutting edge research you need the person with the right experience. But that's a small minority of roles.

If

Also some large employers are now making having a second European language one of their criteria for graduate recruitment. I suspect this is a way of quietly discriminating against British STEM graduates and in favour of candidates who have an EU passport and can therefore easily be rotated around European sites.

Sometimesonly

Caroncanta - have you ever actually worked abroad because you certainly have a very vague completely wrong idea of how everything works. But then again, nobody likes an expert anymore so your moment has come!

Gosh, and you really are an expert aren't you. I can see that by your solid research skills and ability to prepare. The world needs more people like you. Believe or not I suspect there probably is a role for you in the Brexit negotiations. You would fit right in with your ducking and diving, snarky comments yet delivering very little of substance.

Whether or not I have worked abroad is not really relevant to this discussion. What is relevent is having the skills to research the things you need to know, that will be important to you, before you go. You didn't do that. And you still don't seem to get it do you. It's you who fucked up, take responsibility for it rather than blaming and insulting others for pointing out your mistakes. It's your problem. Not mine. Live with it.

Biden's first call with a foreign leader was with Justin Trudeau of Canada. They have refused to say which European leader they spoke to first.

Johnson has a lot of fences to mend as far as Biden goes.

Also some large employers are now making having a second European language one of their criteria for graduate recruitment.

I hear of this happening in the city last year (pre covid). Recruiting people with EU passports over just UK passport holders. My British sil lives in Spain, she lost her job because it required her to travel around the EU and she no longer has an EU passport. Both seem a bit dodgy legally but I guess requiring a language is a way around it for city jobs. Can they just advertise 'EU passport an advantage'? I know employers aren't allowed to discriminate on nationality but the fact is an EU passport would be an advantage for them and make it easier for the employee to move around European sites. Could that then make such discrimination ok?

Also, to be honest, I don't think so much about scientists or bankers not being able to move around so much. It's the poor kids from sink estates and failing schools missing out on life enhancing experiences like just rocking up somewhere in Europe and finding a job, learning a language etc. I was that kid and it changed my life.

@caroncanta I'll add spectacular lack of empathy and inability to understand the relevance of real world experience to your impressive skill list then.

Recruiting people with EU passports over just UK passport holders. My British sil lives in Spain, she lost her job because it required her to travel around the EU and she no longer has an EU passport

This is much less important now than it was just 9 months ago. Everyone I know who travels overseas for work hasn't been able to since March. Business haven't suffered. Technology has enabled us to attend the meetings we previously needed to fly to from our own bedrooms, and this is saving businesses £££ in overseas travel costs. Many are even reporting increases in productivity.

It doesn't bode well for the travel market though - which was heavily dependant on business travel to subsidise economy class seats.

That's only up to a point - some jobs can't be done from home.

I'll add spectacular lack of empathy and inability to understand the relevance of real world experience to your impressive skill list then

If it makes you happy then do so.

So pleased I got an Irish passport for my daughter. Yes, voted Remain in case anyone is in any doubt.

That's only up to a point - some jobs can't be done from home.
Well yes, but a huge, huge majority can, and are being done from home.

Well yes, but a huge, huge majority can, and are being done from home.
And back in the real world outside of white collar MN posters
no
the vast majority of jobs are happening where they always did

• on farms
• in factories
• in warehouses
• in shops
• in gyms
• in kitchens
• trades on site

lots of jobs are not happening at all

• in travel
• in tourism
• in the arts

office based jobs are happening from the homes of those with the space and resources to do so

Considering the UK still has some of the best/most recognised universities in the world when it comes to Science & Informatics, I’m sure a German employer would be more inclined to wait for the right talent to start with them than just putting a bum in a seat to start more quickly

Will that continue to be the case post Brexit?

Our response (Crick institute) emphasises that no-deal must be avoided at all costs. It would set back scientific progress significantly and damage the UK’s close research links with Europe and the rest of the world

I think many areas we do very well in now, will not flourish as well outside of the EU, finance springs to mind, the EU will, over time develop its own financial centre and it won't be in a 3rd country.

Biden's first call with a foreign leader was with Justin Trudeau of Canada. They have refused to say which European leader they spoke to first.
FT reports Johnson thought to have been the second leader (after Trudeau) to offer his congratulations, although not confirmed by Biden team. British officials relieved that the "warm" 25 minute call took place so early in Mr Biden's schedule.

Sorry to disappoint.

What is disappointing about it being confirmed that he was second (if he was) when posters are declaring that he was the first?

Disappointing for you that Johnson is as high as second, given you enjoy so much putting him down.

@Toptotoeunicolour

Disappointing for you that Johnson is as high as second, given you enjoy so much putting him down.

Am I alone in thinking the content of the discussion rather trumps the timing ?

Given that Mr. Biden won't have access to the machinery of guaranteed secure communications yet, I doubt much more would have been said than "Hi, thanks, we'll catch up whenever". Bearing in mind GCHQ are still working for Trump quite aside from the leaky nature of UK government at the best of times.