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Brexit

Westminstenders: Governing by U-Turn

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/09/2020 01:45

Johnson's determination to get brexit done and to have 'a clean break from Europe' on terms which involve other countries happily returning fishing rights they bought from us (without recompense for the said previous purchase) in addition to the EU accepting terms they don't feel create a level playingfield and risk their economic future make any deal impossible. Our demands simply aren't achievable.

The alternative is adherence to the Withdrawal Agreement in which we are unable to bail out businesses via state aid and to have no deal which creates huge trade barriers and tarriffs overnight and massive customs red tape which we simply are not yet prepared for because the systems for running this are running behind schedule. This would lead to massive food shortages and Brexit lorry parks throughout the country for the forseeable future.

Johnson's latest bright idea is that he seems to think he can avoid chaos by a strategy which would cause even more chaos by deliberately reneging on the withdrawal agreement which is an international agreement just months after throwing a hissy fit for China doing exactly the same thing. This wouldn't just be hypocritical but would make a mockery of our credibility internationally and potentially endanger every other international agreement we've currently in place because well, why should anyone else stick to an agreement with the UK.

We could face years of legal wrangles with god knows which countries and businesses suing the British government.

But y'know Johnson thinks this is a sensible strategy and a cracking plan to force Brussels to blink first rather than actually take the subject seriously and do something in the country's interest rather than prevent Johnson from damaging his internal reputation with leave voters and because he thinks this is the correct hill to die on to prove he doesn't govern by u-turn. Johnson's ego seems more important to him than feeding the nation and having an international reputation.

Or he could do another u-turn.

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DGRossetti · 11/09/2020 21:08

@BigChocFrenzy

The UK Brexit team & mininsters reportedly brainstormed all the possible ways out of a humiliation for them

I can't help wondering what even madder ideas they rejected
Maybe just as well that aircraft carrier hasn't got planes yet ....

It's almost like they are hoping some grown ups will turn up and make everything better.

Never was the wisdom in being careful what you wish for so evident.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 21:08

Is there a plan, even a Baldrick Cummings Cunning Plan +

Westminstenders: Governing by U-Turn
BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 21:23

Now the Telegraph wants you really scared:

Is Michael Gove really running the country behind the scenes?
Cabinet Office minister played key role in introduction of 'rule of six' and has been trying to smooth things over with the EU

No, but Cummings may have decided to swap glove puppets

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/09/11/michael-gove-really-running-country-behind-scenes/

colouringindoors · 11/09/2020 21:31

i read something on twitter today, Peter Oborne? speculating that Cummings and Gove were running Johnson ....

Pepperwort · 11/09/2020 21:50

Even if the UK gets a deal signed off with Japan that has a few extra bells & whistles than the EU trade deal eg Stilton and pigs ears, then the EU will get to benefit under MFN clauses

MFN is exactly why Britain cannot get as good a deal with Japan as the EU has, or as good as we would have got while in the EU. Japan warned us of the consequences of Brexit a long time ago.

borntobequiet · 11/09/2020 21:52

I’ve emailed my MP again. Much good it’ll do. I’d given up because all I got back was official obfuscation and waffle, until she started forwarding them and I got a personally signed letter from a minister full of obfuscation and waffle. But how can any responsible Tory enable these absolute shits? (Not quite what I said.)

ListeningQuietly · 11/09/2020 21:53

Trade deal with Japan
what do we gain that we did not have inside the EU?

Darker · 11/09/2020 21:57

*Trade deal with Japan
what do we gain that we did not have inside the EU?

BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 22:18

Stilton ?

BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 22:21

"speculating that Cummings and Gove were running Johnson ...."

... out of the door

The only questions are when
and whether Gove will manage an assassination without suicide this time
and maybe whether Sunak might sneak in. Or the quiet Tugenhardt

WorriedMutha · 11/09/2020 22:22

That Peter Oborne article is fascinating. I have tried to fathom who's really pulling the strings. Perhaps we will wait years for the story to be told but his account has a ring of truth about it. I take some comfort from his saying that Johnson is currently very miserable. Big diddums from me.

Yogatomorrow · 11/09/2020 22:26

Thanks colouringindoors that is a really interesting article.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 22:27

WHO chief warning that the mad scramble for vaccines in 2021 is likely to be much worse than for PPE early this year:

Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus @DrTedros

... Several #COVID19 vaccines are in the final stages of their trials.
Factories are producing doses, in the hope they'll receive approval.

There's a chance that by the end of 2020, mass vaccinations could start for high-risk people.

“Vaccine nationalism” invites the same problems that were seen at the outset of lockdowns in March,
when different authorities scrambled for masks, gowns & sanitiser.

^Once new vaccines, drugs & tests become available,
demand will vastly outstrip supply & things will get worse.^

colouringindoors · 11/09/2020 22:30

thanks 😊

FrankieStein402 · 11/09/2020 22:50

what do we gain that we did not have inside the EU

Though we don't have sight of any text yet - perhaps it's more 'what do we lose' -
eg the announcement comment wrt a ban on data localisation. Whilst this sounds like it means Japan cannot insist data is held on Japanese servers I would expect the deal to be bilateral - meaning we could not insist data be held on UK servers.

in cases where that data would be subject to the DPA then the UK DPA would have to be weakened, unless Japan was denoted as having 'equivalent' data protections in place. I'd be pretty sure that the clowns want to weaken the DPA - which would then preclude data sharing across the EU.

It's getting really easy - just think of the daftest thing to do and you'll know what they're planning.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 22:51

Yes, very interesting, colouring

If Gove is running the show, then a major objective for him is likely to be wrecking the GFA, which he has always hated

in which case all these warnings that this bill endangers the GFA ... it's a feature, not a bug

RedToothBrush · 11/09/2020 23:35

@colouringindoors

i read something on twitter today, Peter Oborne? speculating that Cummings and Gove were running Johnson ....
Hasn't that been obvious for some time?

Gove has always thought Johnson wasn't up to the job. Johnson isn't capable of it and isn't interested in doing anything but delegate and then take all the credit. I firmly believe he thinks he's the one making all the big decisions though. Despite the fact that his grasp of detail is so poor and he seems to frequently be unaware of very crucial new developments as if information is at times deliberately with held from him.

Gove's 2017 leadership challenge was based entirely on the point that Johnson wasn't up to the job.

But Johnson is still popular with the public, and Gove isnt. And Brexit must be finished and a fall guy found for it. Plus Gove needs Johnson to fuck up badly to oust him. And to turn around his public image (in time for the next election) Gove has to turn Johnson's shit show around. And fast.

Johnson is being played like a fiddle. He's out of his depth but im not really sure he knows it.

If hes still PM this time next year i will be very surprised (says she who thought May would go at least 6 months earlier)

OP posts:
Sostenueto · 11/09/2020 23:41

Dgd due to go to uni on Sunday. Hope the hell we can get her there and she starts course before London goes into stricter Covid measures☹️

SunnyUplandsOhNoTurnipSoup · 11/09/2020 23:59

What would happen if Johnson resigned now?

BigChocFrenzy · 12/09/2020 00:43

He won't until at least January, maybe a few months later,
because he has to fulfill his role as scapegoat for the botched Brexit and the COVID carnage

  • he just hasn't realised this yet
BigChocFrenzy · 12/09/2020 00:47

Barring genuine health reasons, I should have said, he won't go now,
but he could use the after-effects of COVID as a resignation face-saver next year, probably within months of the country suffering No Deal

Darker · 12/09/2020 07:28

MEP on R4 this morning saying that if this bill is passed the negotiations will almost certainly stop.

Brexit always was an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object. What a total mess.