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Brexit

Westminstenders: Governing by U-Turn

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/09/2020 01:45

Johnson's determination to get brexit done and to have 'a clean break from Europe' on terms which involve other countries happily returning fishing rights they bought from us (without recompense for the said previous purchase) in addition to the EU accepting terms they don't feel create a level playingfield and risk their economic future make any deal impossible. Our demands simply aren't achievable.

The alternative is adherence to the Withdrawal Agreement in which we are unable to bail out businesses via state aid and to have no deal which creates huge trade barriers and tarriffs overnight and massive customs red tape which we simply are not yet prepared for because the systems for running this are running behind schedule. This would lead to massive food shortages and Brexit lorry parks throughout the country for the forseeable future.

Johnson's latest bright idea is that he seems to think he can avoid chaos by a strategy which would cause even more chaos by deliberately reneging on the withdrawal agreement which is an international agreement just months after throwing a hissy fit for China doing exactly the same thing. This wouldn't just be hypocritical but would make a mockery of our credibility internationally and potentially endanger every other international agreement we've currently in place because well, why should anyone else stick to an agreement with the UK.

We could face years of legal wrangles with god knows which countries and businesses suing the British government.

But y'know Johnson thinks this is a sensible strategy and a cracking plan to force Brussels to blink first rather than actually take the subject seriously and do something in the country's interest rather than prevent Johnson from damaging his internal reputation with leave voters and because he thinks this is the correct hill to die on to prove he doesn't govern by u-turn. Johnson's ego seems more important to him than feeding the nation and having an international reputation.

Or he could do another u-turn.

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WorriedMutha · 12/09/2020 07:33

That's interesting because Peter Bonehead was on Newsnight last night saying it could take weeks to ping pong this bill around. Maybe it really is a desperate elaborate bluff to elicit a better deal. Remember they rushed the WA through Parliament in three days. It's a crap plan but the only one they've got.

Darker · 12/09/2020 07:38

I hope Conservative MPs across the country have had a sleepless night consulting their consciences.

SunnyUplandsOhNoTurnipSoup · 12/09/2020 08:08

DC couldn't care less about the consequences. Of course the EU will not agree a trade deal if we are threatening to break international law but the main thing is to blame the EU / anyone else for what comes next. DC relishes a no deal Brexit and disruption it will bring. But if the theory about the Cummings-Gove pact is right, what is Gove thinking will happen? I get they are mad for a deregulated, low tax, bargain basement UK and the sell off of the NHS. Is that for Gove the purpose and job done? Leave without a deal, Johnson resigns, the right have what they want? I don't get it. No deal is a date, not an end point - we will still need a trade deal with the EU and won't get one with the current shenalligans. The US won't ratify a trade deal that risks Irish interests and the breakup of the UK is getting closer every day. How does this benefit Gove?

Mistigri · 12/09/2020 08:19

i read something on twitter today, Peter Oborne? speculating that Cummings and Gove were running Johnson ....

Johnson has always had limited attention for and interest in detail, so he was always going to be reliant on his advisors. His run-in with COVID has dramatically worsened his ability to pay attention and to think and speak coherently (he's probably not as cognitively impaired as Trump, but honestly if you listen to the two of them speak, the comparison isn't favourable to Johnson).

However, I'm not completely sure whether I think Johnson is being manipulated (ie that this is all a long-planned strategy). Of course he was told 9 months ago that NI was going to be a problem. Did he listen/understand? (He strikes me as a man who hears what he wants to hear).

It's also possible that there isn't a real strategy, and that this is just reactive politics in response to being backed into a corner. The idea that Gove is some master strategist is actually quite laughable. The impression that Gove is in some way capable is largely because he is surrounded by confederacy of dunces. Anyone can look clever next to Suella Braverman.

MarshaBradyo · 12/09/2020 08:25

Oh my goodness R4 interview driving me nuts. So much interrupting

DGRossetti · 12/09/2020 08:30

@Darker

I hope Conservative MPs across the country have had a sleepless night consulting their consciences.
I think the very first thing anyone who becomes a Tory does is have theirs removed.

If you have to rely on peoples consciences in politics then you and your country are - as the Irish might say - Well fucked

With the upcoming paean to Dennis Nielson on the BBC, this is as good a time as ever to remember - maybe as a bumper sticker or tattoo - the chilling phrase The banality of evil

DGRossetti · 12/09/2020 08:31

He strikes me as a man who hears what he wants to hear

and disregards the rest ?

DGRossetti · 12/09/2020 08:32

@MarshaBradyo

Oh my goodness R4 interview driving me nuts. So much interrupting
Sounds like where I was 2 years ago.

I no longer use the BBC - they can rot in hell as far as I am concerned.

Mistigri · 12/09/2020 08:35

Remarkable how little attention people are paying to this (outside legal circles, the heavily politically engaged, and currency traders).

Not a single active thread on this, as Johnson takes the UK into no deal without parliamentary scrutiny and effectively blows up the union.

People just don't care. You have to wonder what will need to happen to make them care.

MarshaBradyo · 12/09/2020 08:37

DG I’ve already struck off TV news and the papers. I need a lifeline! What do you listen to?

SunnyUplandsOhNoTurnipSoup · 12/09/2020 08:39

"The idea that Gove is some master strategist is actually quite laughable. The impression that Gove is in some way capable is largely because he is surrounded by confederacy of dunces."

I couldn't agree more but he is sadly not held back by his failings. An old article when Gove was SoS for education (with DC as his advisor). "

And yet it is just possible that the minister is a monster"
twitter.com/shockproofbeats/status/748468632871665664?s=09

DGRossetti · 12/09/2020 08:41

@Mistigri

Remarkable how little attention people are paying to this (outside legal circles, the heavily politically engaged, and currency traders).

Not a single active thread on this, as Johnson takes the UK into no deal without parliamentary scrutiny and effectively blows up the union.

People just don't care. You have to wonder what will need to happen to make them care.

Hence my comment about dogs not barking.

Mind you: cui bono ? The various media owners would love the UK to declare itself free of the constraints of international agreements. They too will think they can ride the dragon.

Let's wait for the first person to challenge extradition to the UK based on it's breach of a treaty. After all, Tuesday it's the withdrawal agreement, then the entire Vienna convention (watch out ! Diplomats).

DGRossetti · 12/09/2020 08:51

@MarshaBradyo

DG I’ve already struck off TV news and the papers. I need a lifeline! What do you listen to?
I tend to scan various forums I read (don't post in all of them) and use them to crawl the web. DW tends to stick to the BBC. Which is why she asks me what the news is.
DGRossetti · 12/09/2020 08:54

It's a little to easy to see Gove as Himmler.

Johnson is a shoe-in for Goering.

Cummings has more than a touch of Goebbels about him.

If someone were to comment that Hancock is a dead ringer for Mengele than I would say that the universe is trying to say something.

Darker · 12/09/2020 08:56

With Johnson the problem seems to be a terminal inability to see the long term impact of tactics intended to achieve short term gains. That and no moral compass.

prettybird · 12/09/2020 09:47

Patrick Kidd from the Times' diary Grin

Westminstenders: Governing by U-Turn
bellinisurge · 12/09/2020 09:47

They couldn't strategise their way out of a paper bag. The sooner we all acknowledge that this is just about the chaos, the better.

Tanith · 12/09/2020 09:49

I was interested to read recently about Albert Göring, the brother of the more notorious Hermann.

Albert hated Nazism and did everything he could to oppose it, helping Jews and others who were persecuted by the regime.
He forged his brother's signature, obtained false papers and used his considerable influence to get people freed from arrest. He even got involved in sabotage of the war effort. The Nazi party appears to have known about his activities, but most were too terrified of Göring Major to do anything about it.

He was shunned after the war because of his family connection.

RedToothBrush · 12/09/2020 09:55

Remember that Cummings / Gove both have a burn to the ground and rebuild mentality to rejuvenation and do not think gradual reform works. Both have voiced it in the past.

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Sostenueto · 12/09/2020 10:00

I listened too to radio 4 interview with Gove. Reason he was being interupted was

  1. he wouldn't answer the questions.
  2. he kept on changing the subject with long speeches on stuff he wasn't asked. The man is a liar the man is good at avoiding questions. The man is a cretin.
RedToothBrush · 12/09/2020 10:01

@DGRossetti

It's a little to easy to see Gove as Himmler.

Johnson is a shoe-in for Goering.

Cummings has more than a touch of Goebbels about him.

If someone were to comment that Hancock is a dead ringer for Mengele than I would say that the universe is trying to say something.

Voiceover

"Also starring in 'Nazis if they had been British' Theresa May as Hindenberg who signed the Enabling Act of 1933, which allowed the use of Henry VIII powers to avoid parliamentary scrutiny."

"Screening available in a place near you soon. Unlike Covid-19 testing"

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Tanith · 12/09/2020 10:06

My apologies if this has already been posted.
Bylines are pulling no punches:

https://westenglandbylines.co.uk/a-letter-to-boris/

Darker · 12/09/2020 10:16

Great letter.

Darker · 12/09/2020 10:20

I don't see how BJs position is tenable now.

prettybird · 12/09/2020 10:21

It never was. He was always promising the undeliverable. Why is now any different? Wink