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Brexit

Westminstenders: Governing by U-Turn

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/09/2020 01:45

Johnson's determination to get brexit done and to have 'a clean break from Europe' on terms which involve other countries happily returning fishing rights they bought from us (without recompense for the said previous purchase) in addition to the EU accepting terms they don't feel create a level playingfield and risk their economic future make any deal impossible. Our demands simply aren't achievable.

The alternative is adherence to the Withdrawal Agreement in which we are unable to bail out businesses via state aid and to have no deal which creates huge trade barriers and tarriffs overnight and massive customs red tape which we simply are not yet prepared for because the systems for running this are running behind schedule. This would lead to massive food shortages and Brexit lorry parks throughout the country for the forseeable future.

Johnson's latest bright idea is that he seems to think he can avoid chaos by a strategy which would cause even more chaos by deliberately reneging on the withdrawal agreement which is an international agreement just months after throwing a hissy fit for China doing exactly the same thing. This wouldn't just be hypocritical but would make a mockery of our credibility internationally and potentially endanger every other international agreement we've currently in place because well, why should anyone else stick to an agreement with the UK.

We could face years of legal wrangles with god knows which countries and businesses suing the British government.

But y'know Johnson thinks this is a sensible strategy and a cracking plan to force Brussels to blink first rather than actually take the subject seriously and do something in the country's interest rather than prevent Johnson from damaging his internal reputation with leave voters and because he thinks this is the correct hill to die on to prove he doesn't govern by u-turn. Johnson's ego seems more important to him than feeding the nation and having an international reputation.

Or he could do another u-turn.

OP posts:
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RedToothBrush · 07/09/2020 08:29

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-deal-can-be-a-good-outcome-insists-pm-92v0vmlc0
No-deal can be a good outcome, insists PM
Johnson sets five-week deadline for Brexit talks

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prettybird · 07/09/2020 08:43

Weary PMK.

Wonder what impact BJ's attempted re-writing of International Law the rules will have on his proposed and unwanted bridge between NI and Scotland? HmmConfused

Even if they could find a feasible route (one suggested route goes over a munitions dump of indeterminate size and the other involves hours of driving along narrow winding roads subject to land slips), they would also have to incorporate large customs areas at either end Shock

Westminstenders: Governing by U-Turn
AuldAlliance · 07/09/2020 08:56

PMK

Westminstenders: Governing by U-Turn
WorriedMutha · 07/09/2020 09:07

Thanks for the Twitter round up Red. For other opinions behind the headlines follow David Henig, Dmitri Grobousinsky, the Columnist, Simon Usherwood. Paul Mason has written a good thread this morning.
Apart from all the hand wringing, I'm seeing two useful attacks emerging. The anti Brexit House of Lords can go to town on the proposed legislation as it is not a Government manifesto commitment. Secondly, could there be a Supreme Court challenge as to whether domestic legislation can contradict treaty obligations?
Keir Starmer is going to have a field day at PMQs.

TheABC · 07/09/2020 09:09

I think this is the logical end result of Johnson going "oh crap, how do I get out of the treaty I signed but did not read?". Remember, he does not do penitence or apologies.

I am waiting for the next set of breathtaking lies. It's s bloody big hill to die on.

RedToothBrush · 07/09/2020 09:28

Btw have you noticed the noise about reversing the planned upcoming increase to the minimum wage...

...keep your eyes on that story developing.

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GeistohneGrenzen · 07/09/2020 09:34

Thanks Red and all regular posters Flowers
You keep me sane

mathanxiety · 07/09/2020 09:35

8/ In return, London has suggested it can make life easier for Irish trucks relying on the UK land bridge to bring exports from IE to the rest of the single market via Dover and other UK ports.

9/ The land bridge is an ongoing issue for Ireland as Irish trade flows from one part of the single market to another risk being entangled in long queues at Dover, esp if there is no deal...

10/ It's understood the UK has talked about "facilitations" for Irish trucks, although there are no details yet as to what they might look like...

Nooooo! Don't fall for it, Dublin. It is pure BS.

Sostenueto · 07/09/2020 09:41

Yes knew about the u turn on minimum wage rumour red about 2 days ago. Excuse is businesses can't afford it and will lead to further job losses. One of several sound bytes being put out to see which idea is less controversial for upcoming budget including not letting people access their private pensions early.
Trouble is if they freeze wage increases inflation is rising and it could be life threatening for those on minimum wage who are already struggling and using foodbanks which are in decline themselves.

RHTawneyonabus · 07/09/2020 09:44

Playbook’s take on what might be going on

“One: That No. 10 really wants a deal and is trying to leverage EU leaders into changing chief negotiator Michel Barnier’s mandate on state aid and fish, by threatening to tear up the Withdrawal Agreement in the event of no deal.

Two: That No. 10 has decided it now wants negotiations to end but doesn’t want to be blamed for it, so is provoking the EU into effectively terminating talks.

Three: That No. 10 is throwing some Brexity red meat to the Withdrawal Agreement-hating Tory backbenches and European Research Group, in order to placate them over the government’s handling of coronavirus and schools. (Of course, more than one of these could be true at the same time.”

Sostenueto · 07/09/2020 09:46

Can you imagine freezing minimum wage, expotential rise in inflation and tax increases ( the stealthy style)? My DD really struggling now as Dgd heads off to uni and universal credit stopped in June for her. I have already told DD she will have to come to me every day to be fed because no way she can pay all her rent and council tax and utility bills plus tv and life insurance and eat and clothe herself and send money to Dgd when her bloody rent is over half her wages!

TokyoSushi · 07/09/2020 09:49

PMK. Ugh.

Sostenueto · 07/09/2020 09:50

And on a basic state pension with small pension credit top up and no savings I'm not sure how the hell I'm going to pay my bills and feed us both and send money to Dgd!

mathanxiety · 07/09/2020 09:51

I don't think the UK ever had any intention of honouring the Agreement. There has been no good faith here.

I think BJ and his cronies always thought they could brazen their way out of it. He tossed responsible Tory MPs out of the party ahead of the (frankly) Hitleresque move so that he wouldn't have to deal with backbench uproar when he pulled the trigger.

The aim was always to create a Wild West meets Singapore-on-Thames, with the UK, in cahoots with Trump's US, in the vanguard of a rush to cast off the shackles of international law and respect for legality.

squid4 · 07/09/2020 10:02

Hey everyone.
Just finished night shifts. (Not covid.) Winter-busy. Opening extra beds, getting extra staff in. 8 hour waits for a doctor in A&E again. It feels like we are too tired for this. But on we go.
Have no idea what to say about the ever worsening news. Will just read this and hope for sanity at some point in the (likely distant) future.

squid4 · 07/09/2020 10:02

I mean not busy with covid.
Sorry sleep deprived.
Bed & cuppa!

squid4 · 07/09/2020 10:05

In better news me and my neighbours managed to get a joint childminder to help us around school runs so we can all keep working!! (they are doctors too)
she is young and struggling to get work and someoneI'm glad to give a job to in current climate... we have assured her she will be protected and paid if she has to self isolate etc

Fuck knows what's going to happen this winter...

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 07/09/2020 10:45

squid4 grateful thanks to you and your colleagues as always. Glad you've got childcare sorted, sounds like a win all round.

ListeningQuietly · 07/09/2020 11:02

PMK

Looking at recipes to make sure I do not run out of food this winter
currently deciding how to make courgettes into a sort of mango chutney

DGRossetti · 07/09/2020 11:07

I imagine there's going to be some calm reflection across the channel for now. No point reacting to something "planned". Especially when it's more than likely that the "plan" is just to elicit a reaction.

Parents of toddlers might recognise what's going on here. This is the UK scthweaming and scthweaming now ... before they whip out that stone-cold classic of abusers:

Look what you made me do.

In any other times, where POTUS wasn't openly advocating his own citizens perpetrate criminal acts, this would alarm the world.

There is an interesting constitutional question around MPs that consciously vote to break an international treaty. Mainly about whether the term "fascist" or "nazi" is more appropriate.

DF isn't happy to call this lot fascists because he felt Mussolini was actually pretty competent (from his memory).

If the UK were to break the WA, who would view it as crossing the Rubicon ?

HoneysuckIejasmine · 07/09/2020 11:16

I know a few people making use of young 20s aged neighbours and such for childcare. In one case the child was supposed to be going to now cancelled wrap around care and the babysitter was supposed to be living it up in Australia. Sad

DGRossetti · 07/09/2020 11:23

Making people think it's normal to pay strangers to look after your children (like all the posh nobs do) is another stroke of genius by the elite.

borntobequiet · 07/09/2020 11:26

@Sostenueto

Can you imagine freezing minimum wage, expotential rise in inflation and tax increases ( the stealthy style)? My DD really struggling now as Dgd heads off to uni and universal credit stopped in June for her. I have already told DD she will have to come to me every day to be fed because no way she can pay all her rent and council tax and utility bills plus tv and life insurance and eat and clothe herself and send money to Dgd when her bloody rent is over half her wages!
Unfortunately I can imagine all of this under the current bunch of dolts and shysters. Probably with other stuff we haven't already thought about. Another Lansley-style reorganisation of the NHS? Total abolishment of post offices? Halving the state pension because we're all going to die anyway? Nothing is too crazy for them.
squid4 · 07/09/2020 11:32

@DGRossetti

Making people think it's normal to pay strangers to look after your children (like all the posh nobs do) is another stroke of genius by the elite.
I never done it before but schools have cancelled all their breakfast and afterschool clubs and I feel I am too high risk to have my mum stay. Any better suggestions?? Hmm
QuestionMarkNow · 07/09/2020 11:34

PMK

I personally think BJ is bluffing. It's the old 'we'll scare them until the last minute, put the pressure on becayse its obvious THEY will cave first'

I think it's quite telling that Barnier has refused to comment on the 'we'll just not follow the WA a binding international treaty that I have signed and agreed on'

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