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Brexit

Westminstenders: Governing by U-Turn

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/09/2020 01:45

Johnson's determination to get brexit done and to have 'a clean break from Europe' on terms which involve other countries happily returning fishing rights they bought from us (without recompense for the said previous purchase) in addition to the EU accepting terms they don't feel create a level playingfield and risk their economic future make any deal impossible. Our demands simply aren't achievable.

The alternative is adherence to the Withdrawal Agreement in which we are unable to bail out businesses via state aid and to have no deal which creates huge trade barriers and tarriffs overnight and massive customs red tape which we simply are not yet prepared for because the systems for running this are running behind schedule. This would lead to massive food shortages and Brexit lorry parks throughout the country for the forseeable future.

Johnson's latest bright idea is that he seems to think he can avoid chaos by a strategy which would cause even more chaos by deliberately reneging on the withdrawal agreement which is an international agreement just months after throwing a hissy fit for China doing exactly the same thing. This wouldn't just be hypocritical but would make a mockery of our credibility internationally and potentially endanger every other international agreement we've currently in place because well, why should anyone else stick to an agreement with the UK.

We could face years of legal wrangles with god knows which countries and businesses suing the British government.

But y'know Johnson thinks this is a sensible strategy and a cracking plan to force Brussels to blink first rather than actually take the subject seriously and do something in the country's interest rather than prevent Johnson from damaging his internal reputation with leave voters and because he thinks this is the correct hill to die on to prove he doesn't govern by u-turn. Johnson's ego seems more important to him than feeding the nation and having an international reputation.

Or he could do another u-turn.

OP posts:
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prettybird · 11/09/2020 16:26

Or FUKD - aka the former United Kingdom DemocracyWink

That would allow for the departure of Scotland, NI and eventually Wales Grin

DGRossetti · 11/09/2020 16:30

@prettybird

Or FUKD - aka the former United Kingdom DemocracyWink

That would allow for the departure of Scotland, NI and eventually Wales Grin

Wasn't the rule that any adjective mentioned in a countries name was a reflection of the reverse ?

So "Democratic" = "not at all", and "United" = "like fuck" ?

BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 16:36

@DGRossetti

I wonder if we should rebrand the United Kingdom, the Democratic United Kingdom. Just to alert the rest of the world we're not anymore (if indeed we ever were. I'll leave that to the war crimes tribunal in years hence).
... Even "The Peoples Democratic Kingdom of Great Britain & NI"

Democratic & Kingdom do look strange together

BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 16:38

Oops, spotted another cunning plan used by law-dodgers:

change your name and try to evade your debts

ListeningQuietly · 11/09/2020 18:15

Many of the posters on this thread are used to reading legalese and forms and understand the effective use of technology to achieve effective results.

You are also aware of the Check, Change, Go campaign that the Government are running.

Try this for size - Guidance on clearing customs for high volume low value importers think back to the days of Amazon selling all CD's via Jersey

This is the Final Official Form
note the layout, heading, hyperlinks, data integrity tests
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/916553/Application_for_the_Bulk_Import_Reduced_Data_Set.pdf

And then y'all wonder why I am 120% cynical about what will happen in Kent

FrankieStein402 · 11/09/2020 18:23

This is the Final Official Form

A cut and paste job worthy of clav

quiteathome · 11/09/2020 18:27

I had forgotten that all the cheap Amazon CDs used to come from Jersey.

ListeningQuietly · 11/09/2020 18:37

Frankie
I think even Clav would be embarrassed to produce a key trading document that can only be filled in by hand with no validation checks.

Quite
The £135 limit for reduced checks is a smugglers charter.
I suspect PLCs and their advisers are already working out how to split everything down into jiffy bags.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 18:42

Statement of the UK Coordination Group and the leaders of the political groups of the EP

Even if the EU Commission and 27 heads of govt had a communal brainfart and agreed to a deal,
the European Parliament would veto any trade deal until the UK removes the Internal Market Bill and accepts the WA in full, as signed by all

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20200907IPR86513/statement-of-the-uk-coordination-group-and-ep-political-group-leaders

The UKCG and the EP political group leaders issued the following statement after meeting with Chief EU Negotiator Michel Barnier and Joint Committee Co-Chair Maroš Šefčovič, on Friday.
....
EP political group leaders and UKCG members are deeply concerned and disappointed that the UK Government published an Internal Market Bill that clearly represents a serious and unacceptable breach of international law.

It violates the Withdrawal Agreement that was signed and ratified by the current UK Government and Parliament less than a year ago.
The Internal Market Bill gravely damages the trust and credibility that the European Parliament <a class="break-all" href="//mailto:www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2020-0033_EN.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">has already saidd^ is “an essential element of any negotiation”,
thus putting at risk the ongoing negotiations on the future relationship.
....
Should the UK authorities breach – or threaten to breach – the Withdrawal Agreement, through the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill in its current form or in any other way,
the European Parliament will, under no circumstances, ratify any agreement between the EU and the UK

DGRossetti · 11/09/2020 18:50

I wonder if the EU might be having a word in Japans shell like ? I know I would.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 18:53

Have Japan fully ratified thr agreement, in their Parliament etc ?

I thought the recent signing was a memorandum of understanding that the negotiations had completed and agreement reached, to be handed upwards
because I didn't think Truss could sign anything on behalf of the UK ?
< what idiot would give her that authority .... yes, BJ would >

BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 18:55

I expect the EU is keeping a dignified silence
Unless anybody asks them for the Horrible History details

Let everyone watch the UK govt actions

prettybird · 11/09/2020 18:55

Even if the UK gets a deal signed off with Japan that has a few extra bells & whistles than the EU trade deal eg Stilton and pigs ears Wink, then the EU will get to benefit under MFN clauses Grin

....all that effort for nowt extra Confused

Let's not even muse about the Japanese parliament being reluctant to ratify a deal with a rogue nation Wink

DGRossetti · 11/09/2020 19:01

I'd also be curious as to what advice compliance departments outside the UK are giving their companies ? I can't see many being thrilled to sign off a contract with a country that is determined not to be bound by it's undertakings. It would certainly be a risk that would need to be mitigated. (Cash upfront ?)

Sostenueto · 11/09/2020 20:12

Japan deal has yet to be approved by their Parliament.

FrankieStein402 · 11/09/2020 20:15

I think even Clav would be embarrassed to produce a key trading document that can only be filled in by hand with no validation checks.

It's a jumbled together cut and paste word document saved as a pdf (look at the pdf properties) - at least as a word document people could have make some of the boxes big enough for the entries (eg getting addresses into the section 10 boxes) and add more rows into some of the tables.

This has obviously been put there as a product from something like an 'agile' sprint - completely unfit for purpose - but getting it off the backlog.

APipkinOfPepper · 11/09/2020 20:30

I emailed my MP (conservative in a massively safe seat) about the internal market bill and got a load of stuff in quote marks setting out “the governments position” but then at the end, this bit - sounds like they are uncomfortable with it? I didn’t really expect anything back other than supporting the govt and how great everything is so seems interesting?

Westminstenders: Governing by U-Turn
BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 20:46

Brexit override plan would breach Vienna convention, QC says
Legal experts and peers say UK government proposal would also breach ministerial code

Looks like the govt is as crap at law - domestic & international - as it is about everything else

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/11/brexit-override-plan-would-breach-vienna-convention-qc-says

However the weight of legal opinion is shifting against advice from the attorney general, Suella Braverman QC, and the solicitor general, Mark Ellis, who backed the plan.

Senior lawyers have expressed amazement at their conclusions.

In a three-page letter seen by the Guardian that summarised advice from Braverman and Ellis,
the pair in effect dismissed duties contained in the ministerial code as irrelevant
and concluded that “international law is subordinate to the much more fundamental principle of parliamentary sovereignty”. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Philippe Sands QC, a professor of international law at University College London, said:

“Every international lawyer is familiar with the Vienna convention on the law of treaties, and its article 27, which reflects a general principle:

‘A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty’.
“There is simply no way around this binding rule – to opine that parliament is sovereign is, in this sense, hopeless.”

BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 20:53

🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️😂😂
Farcical - "Yes Prime Minister" would have rejected this plot a too silly

Boris Johnson Tried To Get His MPs To Back Him Over Brexit On A Zoom Call. It Didn't Quite Go To Plan

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/boris-zoom-call-failure

Boris Johnson's plea to MPs to back him in his controversial Brexit plans descended into farce this evening as his Zoom call was hit by technical problems, singing politicians and interventions from Theresa May.

The Prime Minister is said to have made a "patriotic call" to his party in a bid to head off a growing rebellion over his decision to threaten the EU by breaking parts of the Withdrawal Agreement.

But when the Zoom call attended by 256 MPs suddenly broke off after twenty minutes,
the online forum descended into chaos as MP Michael Fabricant started singing Rule Britannia, clutching a piece of paper with the words already printed out. 🤦🏻‍♀️
< now BJ know what teachers had to put up with in online lessons >

Ex-chair of the eurosceptic European Research Group, Steve Baker, also suggested he should personally chair the meeting instead,
at which point former prime minister May interrupted to say a firm "no". 😂
...
Another MP said Johnson was basically asking them not to rebel against him, which some felt was a rich ask considering his own very public criticism of Mrs May's deal and negotiation with the EU throughout her time in office.

They said the message they took from the call was
"don't do to me as I did to Theresa May". Hmm
....
However MPs doubted that there would eventually be enough numbers to bring down the bill.
< They still support BJ despite the chaos, so it's down to the HoL - and Joanna Cherry going to court again >

DGRossetti · 11/09/2020 20:54

I'm curious as to the dogs that aren't barking. Suggests that as with a ducks paddle, there's a lot going on unseen ?

BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 20:55

They are barking all right.
Barking mad judging by that zoom !

BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 20:57

I wonder if Fabricant was singing "Britainnia waives the rules" ? Hmm

DGRossetti · 11/09/2020 20:58

.

Westminstenders: Governing by U-Turn
BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 21:06

The UK Brexit team & mininsters reportedly brainstormed all the possible ways out of a humiliation for them

I can't help wondering what even madder ideas they rejected
Maybe just as well that aircraft carrier hasn't got planes yet ....

BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2020 21:07

Jon Sopell@BBCJonSopel* (Washington)

I cannot exaggerate the bewilderment in Washington over what UK government is doing over #GoodFridayAgreementt^.

Why, a senior official asked me, is Britain doing something that will lead to a no deal Brexit,
and result in no trade deal with the US either?